M37 / propane ???

[ODdave]

so my m37 need a fuel tank........ what are the thought on propane????

Poll added. Yes/No

 

[ODdave]

bumping this , cant bellive nobody has comented

 

[doghead]

I have 50's Yale forklift, it has a Chrysler flathead 6 in it. It runs on propane. It has a carburetor and can run on gasoline as well.

I have noticed a few M37 trucks that flood or run cruddy on steep hills, I think propane would be a great alternative(especially when off-roading).

 

[M543A2]

The critical determining factor for propane conversions is exhaust valve seats. The fuel is so dry it will allow the exhaust valves to eat up into a cast iron head or block in this case if they are not there. The M-37 does have exhaust seats, so it will be good that way.
You will see a power loss because of the low compression the engine has. If the piston rings and valves are not in good shape you will have difficulty starting it, especially in cold weather. A good starting system that spins the motor at a good speed on cranking will help this.
I myself am not fond of propane as a primary fuel.
Regards Marti

 

[glcaines]

The only M37 I've ever seen running on propane had been retrofitted with a Ford tractor diesel and was being used in a marble mine.

 

[Roller]

I have a hard time keeping my gas grill full of propane, it definately would be a pain with a truck. In our shop it seems the forklift is always out of propane when you need it in a hurry.

Frank

 

[Oldfart]

There are lots of pros and cons to propane power. My son had a full propane one ton crewcab dually Chevy with a big block 454. I forget how many propane tanks the truck had, but that was necessary to achieve similar range to the stock dual tank gas set up it originally had. Turbo charging was necessary to try to match the power output as well. The truck ran clean and for a while it was cheaper than regular gas. Cross country trips were a pain. Try buying propane in San Francisco any time let alone a Sunday. Wendover Utah is no better. You have to wait for the rural propane truck driver to get back to the barn to get fueled up. You can spend half a day waiting or looking for fuel.

Now about the Chrysler forklift engine, it has sodium filled valves and should be 265 cu. in. It is the same dimensions as the Canadian M37 engine and will retrofit into an M37 without to much difficulty. Make some front mount extensions and take out the fan spacer. Make an adaptor for the Oil Fill tube so you can mount the M37 fill tube. I put a full balance job on mine and it will push my M37 down the road briskly.

 

[M-37Bruce]

Propane

SOTVEN, a G-741 member has a propane fired M-37, he's in Greece. Go to Robi's page and pose your ?, I sure he will catch your inquiry?

 

[PropDr]

Driveability Will be better on propane. The hard starting problem is easly fixed with an electric priming valve on the vaporizer. Consistent fuel distribution across all six cylinders will make up for the loss in power as opposed to the gasoline setup. The fuel econmy might even go up because of the better fuel distrobution. If you were to block off the host spot in the intake you could probebly get a few more hp out of it because of the increase in intake charge density. Also if your worried about being able to find fuel you could always set it up for dual fuel.

What gasoline carb does it have on it now?

 

[Oldfart]

Driveability Will be better on propane. The hard starting problem is easly fixed with an electric priming valve on the vaporizer. Consistent fuel distribution across all six cylinders will make up for the loss in power as opposed to the gasoline setup. The fuel econmy might even go up because of the better fuel distrobution. If you were to block off the host spot in the intake you could probebly get a few more hp out of it because of the increase in intake charge density. Also if your worried about being able to find fuel you could always set it up for dual fuel.

What gasoline carb does it have on it now?

Based on our experience with my sons propane powered pickup I have always thought dual fuel would be a must if you were expecting to use the vehicle for something more than localized work like in a mine or lumber yard. The fuel is remarkably clean burning and can cause valve problems if not compensated for. Our system used a vaporizer (heater) that attempted to make sure the fuel was totally vaporized. However, the big block manifold pattern and some less than complete vaporisation made the front left and rear right pistons run slightly lean. ~~ We used this truck in an all around capacity for about 5 years before we converted it back to regular gas. The engine was like new when we made the conversion and that was after 13 years and thousands of miles as propane powered. ~~ Since our experience with this truck, I have always thought a direct injection propane system might be something worth considering. ~~ There are differences in specific energy between LPG and pump gasoline and in fact differences in LPG specific energy depending on the gas source. Butane shows up in LPG in varying amounts in different parts of the country.

 

[PropDr]

I realize that that the BTU content of the fuel is around 27% lower that gasoline, not trying to argue that. I'm just trying to point out the fact that the combustion quality would be greatly improved on that engine. Intake manifold designs in that era were less than ideal. Between the fuel drop out in the long runners on that inline six and the low compression a substantial amount of fuel is not being vaporized and is going right out the tail pipe unburned. Using a gaseous fuel will resolve that problem and increase efficiency on that engine. On an engine with a semi modern intake manifold and head design such as your 454 you would loose a substantial amount of power because you don't have fuel fall out problems nearly as bad as a flat head inline six. Comparing a modern 454 to a flat head six is a stretch at best.

As for your 454 if you were getting liquid propane past the vaporizer it was probably undersized for the size mixer you were running or you did not have adequate hot water flow. It's not uncommon to have to run 2 vaporizers to keep up with the fuel demands of a healthy big block.
How did you determine that the front left and right rear were running lean? Did you have EGT probes installed in all 8 exhaust runners? Last time i checked plugs don't really color or it takes lots of miles to show any deposits when you run propane. Did you ever try running a 1" or 2" spacer under the mixer? It probebly would of cured your mixture problem.

I agree with your statement about the direct injection propane system. It has all of the benafits with almost no drawbacks.

An after thought not related to Oldfart's post. Engines converted to propane will benifit from a more agressive timing advance cureve, around 12-16° initial and a total of 38° by 2500rpm (assuming that the distrubuter is not equipted with vacuum advance or that the vacuum advanced is disabled). Your results may vary as these are just ball park figures due to the fact that every engine is different.

 

[Oldfart]

How did you determine that the front left and right rear were running lean? Did you have EGT probes installed in all 8 exhaust runners? Last time i checked plugs don't really color or it takes lots of miles to show any deposits when you run propane. Did you ever try running a 1" or 2" spacer under the mixer? It probebly would of cured your mixture problem.

Yes to the EGT probe except we had a dual reading pyrometer and the manifolds were equipped with a probe port in each tube. We moved the 2 probes up and down each bank and checked the temperatures at like operating conditions. After we had some sense of which cylinders were running hotter, we left the probes there. We also used a portable IR temperature gage to confirm the pyrometer readings.

No to making any modifications to the system. It had about a 1" spacer when my son bought it. The truck was purchased from a ranch operation in a part of Wyoming that was very near an LPG production plant and not only was the fuel there cheaper, it was plentiful. I think everything for miles ran on or was heated by LPG. Don't misunderstand my remarks. The only reason we converted from Propane to Gasoline was a sudden increase in the cost of Propane and the difficulty in buying fuel on the road.

 

[ODdave]

My intentions where to do dual fuel, LPG/gas. i was just curious obout what i should keep in mind. I was looking for something simple because the 230 isnt a great engine to begin with. Future plans will be a efi 355 chevy i biult a few years back with a nv4500. it makes at least 4x the hp and should get much better mileage. (pic atached)

 

[Hightechken]

An "On demand" regulator (Sells for about 50 bucks brand new if you shop around) Is the only main part you need to make the conversion. As already pointed out, You will have a little less power than on gas.

 

[Tanner]

Don't try to advance the timing to gain power on propane; you'll break something...

'Tanner'

 

[A/C Cages]

I had one of my sandrails running on propane and we used to roll that thing over all the time, flip it back over, and take off. Best thing to use in uneven terrian.

 

[rainbow]

Put a 6 cylinder chevy rochester carburetor from the mid 1950s on your m37 and you won't believe the difference. They start and run better with more power and no flooding over. Can't remember due to years back if you use one off a 216 or 235 cubic inch engine. The bolt holes are futher apart on the 235

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I voted "NO" on this survey. Having read the thread I have to say it's been informative to the point that my "NO" vote may have been in error.

I've always been against running propane in an M37 because of potential power drop "and" cold weather starting problems.

PropDr's comments about manifold efficiencies makes a lot of sense. This "could" mean that there might be very little, if any, power drop when changing to propane.

Not to hijack the thread but rainbow's comments are no doubt very true. I installed a Holly/Webber (Ford Pinto) progressive 2-barrel on my M37 and it made all the difference in the world.