M809 Series- Front axle work and what to expect

[TheQuaker]

Ajax
I'll give my thumbs up as well for the torque multipliers.
I picked up a "not so expensive" one from Amazon in preparation even before I got my 923.
After having all 10 wheels off at least once (a couple more than once already to replace axle seals unfortunately) I believe these things are God's gift to MV owners. Unbelievably effortless to use and so simple and effective.
I also recommend always having a couple appropriate spare lug nuts and studs (RH & LH) on hand before starting anything requiring removing the wheels. I found several lugs and studs on mine that were damaged, cross-threaded, stripped, etc. and needed immediate replacement and many more that had seen much better days and will need to be replaced eventually.
Nothing more frustrating than trying to get your truck back together and on the road after dealing with a failed seal or something and not having a simple spare stud/nut to complete the job, especially as I do most work on my truck on the weekends when the local truck parts shops are not open.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

[Ajax MD]

Ajax
I'll give my thumbs up as well for the torque multipliers.
I picked up a "not so expensive" one from Amazon in preparation even before I got my 923.
After having all 10 wheels off at least once (a couple more than once already to replace axle seals unfortunately) I believe these things are God's gift to MV owners. Unbelievably effortless to use and so simple and effective.
I also recommend always having a couple appropriate spare lug nuts and studs (RH & LH) on hand before starting anything requiring removing the wheels. I found several lugs and studs on mine that were damaged, cross-threaded, stripped, etc. and needed immediate replacement and many more that had seen much better days and will need to be replaced eventually.
Nothing more frustrating than trying to get your truck back together and on the road after dealing with a failed seal or something and not having a simple spare stud/nut to complete the job, especially as I do most work on my truck on the weekends when the local truck parts shops are not open.View attachment 782281

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Good point, I should have had some spare studs and nuts on hand. Fortunately, everything had gone smoothly and without damage...up to the point of this one, stuck nut.
Thanks for the product endorsement, it makes me feel confident that I'll have that nut removed by this afternoon.

It's Veteran's Day weekend! I'm hoping to finish up the driver's side Saturday or Sunday, put some American flags on the front fenders and go for a little drive on Monday!

 

[Ajax MD]

Well, the new tool broke the final lug nut free in seconds. I did crank on it a few times and had a moment of concern as the tension built up but it let loose with a good bang and puff of rusty dust.
I did check beforehand, and it's the proper stud. No infiltrators.

The tool is definitely NOT USA-made. I'd like to punch Amazon right in the baby-maker for allowing a big US flag on the description page of that product. The manual was written in pigeon-English.

I'm all pre-staged to tear into the axle tomorrow. I'll try to take different photos this time.

 

[77 AMG]

I got the same one for my birthday back in August, and it has been very useful, both on the trucks AND on the farm equipment. I had to get a second one to keep on the 5 ton, since the first one is always being used.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Front hub removal M51 A2

I will do a detailed write up later, but here some pics that might help



The hub with cap, ready to be taken down. Middle how it looks after you take the grease away, right, the cap full of grease but nothing else. Looks promising.

Then ...

Our equipment does not fit the bolt keeping the axle: you would need a key 4.3" wide, the biggest we have is 4.
Well, working in a blacksmith workshop does pays off.



Now we know it works we will make the new tool nice and smooth and paint it before tackling the other hubs.



Loosening the next center plate and the next final nut. Big surprise: we did not need to make a next tool, the nut was hand-tight.



With some strap cords as help, soldier A and B managed to get the hub off without braking our backs.

Biggest surprise: apart from some recent rust on the inside of the hub, everything looks ok and dry. Only a bit of oil, about a spoon full, in the axle chamber, nothing in the hub itself. Grease looks like grease, oil like oil, no water.

First glance at the brake cylinder seals: looks good also.

Given the fact that probably those brake hubs had not been removed for at least a decade, probably more, that is not bad.

Only thing I saw is that the inside seal has a nick out of it. Might be result of standing in one position for years and then having the hub removed.

 

[Ajax MD]

Finished up the driver's side yesterday.

The driver's side was in even better condition. The grease was still in solid form and plenty of it. Frankly, the only reason I cleaned and re-greased everything was just to get it all on the same maintenance schedule. No axle tube leaks, no corrosion, no brake leaks. The bearings and races are not "like new" but only show a slight amount of normal wear. For some reason, the boot was more difficult this time with a lot of slipping and wrestling but I got it.

I'm posting a couple photos to expand on Wes' video where he uses a pry bar and hammer to lift out the old seal. I just want to show exactly what and where you're hooking the prybar on:

In the first photo, I'm hooked beneath the bearing, hung up on a metal lip inside the hub (not the race). I thought this was correct because I was worried about the bar touching the bearing and damaging it. This is WRONG. Do not do this.

In the second photo, I've slipped the bar in betwixt the lip of the seal and the bearing. To my eye, this looks like I might damage the bearing but it falls into the hub, out of contact. To protect the opposite side of the lip of the seal, I've built up a little cribbage for a safe prying point. This let me remove the seal without damaging it.

The third photo is just to illustrate that the seal is now removed.

I did replace my seals, but the old seal was in perfect condition so I cleaned and bagged it to keep as an "emergency spare" in my collection of parts.

 

[Ajax MD]

Blah, blah blah. More photos. This thread is mainly to help folks with the older 5 tons and clear up some differences between TM's and Youtube.

I saw a guy pull a front drum on Youtube and his inner seal and bearing remained on the spindle when he pulled the drum. This was on a 939 series truck and confused me. I don't know what's normal for a 939, but as demonstrated here, that stuff is supposed to be captive in the brake drum/hub when you pull it.

All of my brake components were labled "OK" so they must be OK, right?
I've noticed that certain places on my truck seem to show good, fresh maintenance and other areas seem totally missed. My truck's very last assignment was RTS-M, Fort Dix, NJANG. It makes me wonder if it served as a student training truck for mechanics?

Also, a photo of how NOT to try to free a stuck lug nut. This might have been an acceptable risk back in the day, but with these new, compact, torque multiplying lug wrenches shown in this thread, there is ZERO reason to risk your tools, your truck or your physical safety this way. I can't believe I actually tried this. I'm glad I stopped.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Did you have any problems putting the seal back? I bought two NOS seals for the 5-tons, really US Army surplus, in the Netherlands. Now packed the bearings, wanting to put the new seal in: no dice, maybe a fraction of a mm too wide. Tried the second one, same. Old one I could get back but also with difficulties. I also noticed that there were some scratch marks and indents on the hub seal sitting. Already ground down the main indent, still missing that fraction. Common problem and how to solve it without starting to bang things and maybe ruin the new seal.

I use the old seal as cover over the new seal, and then a block of would over the old seal to hammer the new seal in evenly. Keeps jumping out.

 

[Floridianson]

Yea saw the same problem with the 5 ton hub seals long ago. Called CR and asked if they had the correct seal installer tool and they said no. I had this one made up by adding a ring of steel around the edge that lines up ok with the inner ring . Most seal installer tools put the pressure around the outer lip so as not to bend the lip where the rubber is installed. This one seems to work well and I have installed plenty with it. With the tool head and handle two to three hits from a big hammer it goes right in and no damage to seal. Most hub seal look like they are just a tad to big but that is how they remain tight in the hub just need to best tool to install our 5 ton hub seals. Sometimes you get lucky with what truck you are working on. The FMTV hub seals do not need a tool to help with install just a hammer. Good luck.

 

[topo]

I was able to use washers and bolts on the hubs of my M52a2 kind of like this picture to hold the seal from tilting and getting it lined up

 

[Glenngineer]

Ajax
I'll give my thumbs up as well for the torque multipliers.
I picked up a "not so expensive" one from Amazon in preparation even before I got my 923.
After having all 10 wheels off at least once (a couple more than once already to replace axle seals unfortunately) I believe these things are God's gift to MV owners. Unbelievably effortless to use and so simple and effective.
I also recommend always having a couple appropriate spare lug nuts and studs (RH & LH) on hand before starting anything requiring removing the wheels. I found several lugs and studs on mine that were damaged, cross-threaded, stripped, etc. and needed immediate replacement and many more that had seen much better days and will need to be replaced eventually.
Nothing more frustrating than trying to get your truck back together and on the road after dealing with a failed seal or something and not having a simple spare stud/nut to complete the job, especially as I do most work on my truck on the weekends when the local truck parts shops are not open.View attachment 782281

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

I bough one works great on the front but will not work on the rear if you have singles. Also keep a good grip on the handle , if she lets loose under load it will spin back hard and hurt lots

 

[Brutacus]

Did you have any problems putting the seal back? I bought two NOS seals for the 5-tons, really US Army surplus, in the Netherlands. Now packed the bearings, wanting to put the new seal in: no dice, maybe a fraction of a mm too wide. Tried the second one, same. Old one I could get back but also with difficulties. I also noticed that there were some scratch marks and indents on the hub seal sitting. Already ground down the main indent, still missing that fraction. Common problem and how to solve it without starting to bang things and maybe ruin the new seal.

I use the old seal as cover over the new seal, and then a block of would over the old seal to hammer the new seal in evenly. Keeps jumping out.

When I put my front seals in, I put my new seals in a freezer, to make them contract a little bit. I also used a 3lbs. sledge hammer, a plate of steel, and the splined hub cap to drive my front seals. The hub cap mates evenly on the seal. One or two hits is all it took for me.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Brutacus, thanks, great pics. Putting the seal in freezer: does that not damage the rubber of the seal?

 

[Scrounger]

The best thing to use is a seal driver. They come in kits or individually. This is what they look like in a kit. Maybe you could fabricate something up if there isn’t a metric size that would match up.

Placing a seal in the freezer won’t hurt it. And a lite layer of grease on the seal helps for installation.

 

[Ajax MD]

Freeze 'em. Do think the rubber gets damaged in winter time?

 

[Floridianson]

The seal drivers in post #54 will not work . I took my CR seal driver tool and added the ring and yea I have the handle. Also you do not put grease on the seal edge if that is what you are talking about. You can clean the mating service of the hub with some light emery paper to get it clean. All seals I have installed in all the years have the sealer on the edge of the seal. Looks like paint but it is there to help seal the seal to the hub. You do not add or need any other sealer or silicone sealer to the mating edge of the new seal. I just use the correct seal tool and handle, take the seal out of the box and install it just like the last pic with the mechanic and his big hammer / seal tool

 

[US6x4]

If the seal is frozen I would let it thaw before putting the hub back on the spindle so that the rubber will be more pliable.

 

[Brutacus]

Brutacus, thanks, great pics. Putting the seal in freezer: does that not damage the rubber of the seal?

It doesn't damage the seal. If you think about, the seals get cold in the winter when the truck sits outside. As long as you don't touch the rubber, you should be fine. Using the hub cap as a seal driver works fine, because it clears the rubber part of the seal while evenly resting on the metal frame of the seal. If you pay close attention to the second pic I posted of the seal, seated in hub you'll notice an even circular mark around the seal. That's the only contact area the hub cap makes with the seal. I only used the hub cap out of frustration, and the method turned out to work for me. Oh, when I placed my seals in the freezer, I only keep them in there long enough to make the contract a little. About 30-40 minutes. By that time had passed, I was ready to set my seal in place.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Thanks for the good pics and advice, will try it today and report back

 

[Robo McDuff]

It has been freezing tonight, about 17 F in Dan's workshop. So we put the brake drum in the kitchen in front of the wood stove, the only really heated room in the workshop. It will stay there today and throughout the night. Will not do much, but it will help a bit. The seal goes into the freezer and tomorrow morning we will try to assemble it.