M923A1 Business Advice

[acme66]

Now I want to say I am in the very early 'pipe dream' portion of this idea...I am just bouncing it off a community for some feedback.

I am a school teacher (3 months off to do this, 9 months to wrench on the truck) who spends most of my summers in a Montana historical mining community working odd jobs and exploring. At this point I am very knowledgeable on the area and its stories and often get requests to take people on 'off road' tours in my Jeep. I have been rolling an idea around in my head for a few summers now about buying a low mileage M923A1, line the bed with seats, put in a PA system and offer to take tourists on a 2 hour up the gulch tour. Thinking seats at the $30-$50 dollar range. It would have just enough rutted mine road to make city slickers visiting feel like they have been out in the world. I have the stories to occupy them easy and a route I can push the truck through on all state roads that will not mean 2 hours of tree branches to the face. The community would welcome the business as it would not conflict with any currently in operation. (a vintage firetruck town tour and a buggy tour of the same area)

I guess I am looking to see if anyone is already doing something similar and can say definitively yes do this or dear god stay away. I am at the point of calling my agent to sniff out rates and that might sink the whole dream anyway. I am just quietly soliciting your thoughts.

Ken Nelson, Montana.

I have a class B (10 wheel) license with passenger, school bus and tanker endorsements so that end is covered.

 

[porkysplace]

Before you go any further locate and price insurance for this and that will be a major factor in determining if it can be done profitably . Your looking at commercial insurance for passengers , not a easy task.

 

[Warthog]

Passengers in the back may be the insurance deal killer. It is very different than having them belted in inside a bus-like structure. Consult with the other operators on what they have in place.

Best of luck to you.

 

[doghead]

I like the idea!

I would guess ins will be the determining factor also.

Good luck

 

[chadande]

Sounds like a cool idea to me. If you could come up with seating and an insurance company to cover you why not?
There are a couple places around my area that do something similar with DUKWs:
http://www.dellsducks.com/ducks.html
http://www.wisconsinducktours.com/

 

[Artisan]

Individual seats w/ seat belts a must. Each seat properly attached to the floor.
No troop seats, too easy for people to bang there heads together. That is
one reason why helmets are required atire in tactical vehicles I thunk!

Egress and Degress via proper steps WITH proper guard rails. I mean
very stout pieces of stairs! You will get 400 pound folks and you
must deal w/ it! Do not forget anti skid on the floors so when
Mr and Mrs Jones' baby barfs all over the place or babybatter
spills you have a prayer...Oh, the car sick people!
Have a water hose ready at base! (Vinyl Seats)

WAIT, you will need CHILD/BABY seats too that work CORRECTLY
and you will be strapping them in as necessary! Speaking of strapping in when
everyone sits down you need to CHECK that seat belts are on! No
matter, when the three folks from NY City climb on, and you take
off after checking seat belts are on, and someone says LOOK A
SNAKE, and these folks remove seat belts, then stand up AS YOU
HIT THE BRAKES and they fall and then they SUE YOU for NEGLEGENCE!


Oh, have you sat in the back of one of these, even w/ the canvas
rolled up in mid days sun? HOT! Better have drinking water, and
cups, and a trash can! Don't forget fire extinguishers!

Wait, drinking and passengers is OK in Montana right? So they
will pack it in there bags and popem open while your driving!
Now you have 3 sloshed idiots from NY City and babies screaming
and babybatter rolling around on the floors why the other folks
are telling you your out of water and cups and they want
their money back cause that 400 pounder is blocking their view! LOL

Yep, all the good stuff can and will happen...

A portable ladder system w/ guardrails so folks can get on and off
the truck at different areas you go to? Or a loading dock you back
up to? LOL

Look at Montanas DMV rules of passenger vehicle inspections too.
How far do you have to drive for it as well as what is required
including your hours worked and off.

I so miss the good ole days, ride in the back o fthe truck to get ice cream
and seat belts were new...

WAIT, we have not discussed the Americans w/ Disibilities Act ADA yet,
where are your provisions for wheel chairs, the lift and strapping etc, and
you better be able to acomodate SegWays too cause they are a HC tool
now as well!

You still want to haul humans?

 

[max1008]

Six flags in new jersey is doing this same thing. I think they are currently outfitting the 9 series trucks with seats. They plan on doing there safari tour with them.

 

[juanprado]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1YvS4DdGHE&feature=player_embedded

 

[acme66]

Talked to the insurance agent today and was surprised at the numbers. He still had to run it past the underwriters but the yearly figure he shot me as an educated guess was right at what I figured my monthly break point would be. We were talking 10X less than I expected. This is good news. It means the project can move forward. I was thinking it might be fun to create a thread to cover the journey in one location, sounds good?

It means I am on a more serious 'looking' track. What I would like to know is are any of you in the Olympic Peninsula area of Washington as that is the most likely source of trucks I will be interested in. I would be looking to find someone who would be willing to inspect trucks for me (for a fee) because the trip from Montana to check them out is a long one. I would be interested in a person with 5 ton experience to crawl over the prospects and give me a report back. Name your price, I am not asking for favors. This would be an entirely off the forum business deal between us. Drop me a line at acme66[at]yahoo.com

It will be nice to report back about truck news as aposed to the M1A1 trailer wiring video I have posted previously.

Ken

 

[Scarecrow1]

I think it is a great idea and you should move forward as swiftly as possible. The right safety steps and you could really make this plausible. I wonder how they stop the diesel fumes from making everyone sick! it may take adding an extension to put it a little farther away. I can see a profit on the sale of Dramamine by it's self, The back of a 5 ton isn't the most friendly place to be you know

 

[PapaPumpSD]

Acme66, I thought I'd share my experience with an off-road 6x6 tour. I went on a Pinzgauer tour in Borrego Springs, CA. It was a bunch of graduate students, including myself. We piled into a Pinz which was husband/wife owned. They included lunch and some drinks if I recall (non-alcoholic). We didn't need to wear seat belts or anything like that. From what I recall (this was ~6 years ago) it was a stock Pinz with troop seats. It was a blast and I remember how amazed I was at how a little Pinz w/an air-cooled engine could traverse the rocks and steep inclines with a full load of people in 85+ degree heat and just keep going and going and going!

I like your idea. Please keep us posted on how your business model unfolds.

Take care,

Brent

 

[acme66]

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose you remember the name of the operation would you? When I search for "Pinzgauer tour in Borrego Springs, CA" I can only find a worldisround website and it doesn't load for me. I would love to talk to someone running a similar tour company who will not feel like I am trying to steal their show. I go to pick up my 923 here in less than 10 days and I am quite excited to have he home and start working.

Ken

 

[max1008]

http://www.pinzgauertours.com/

THIS ONE IS NEAR ME.

 

[PapaPumpSD]

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose you remember the name of the operation would you? When I search for "Pinzgauer tour in Borrego Springs, CA" I can only find a worldisround website and it doesn't load for me. I would love to talk to someone running a similar tour company who will not feel like I am trying to steal their show. I go to pick up my 923 here in less than 10 days and I am quite excited to have he home and start working.

Ken

Sorry Ken, but I do not recall the company's name. In fact, I too tried to search for the company a ways back and I could never find them. Perhaps they don't have a website but are in Yellow Pages? Earlier this week I was searching for 6x6 off-road tours and I came across some companies. Below is a link to one company in the U.S. that uses Pinzers to provide tours. Although they use a 4x4 Pinz vs. a 6x6 5-ton truck, the concept is the same. Perhaps you can reach out to them for some insights?

http://www.santafewalkabouts.com/4x4-adventures/

EDIT: I just found this company in the Borrego Springs, CA area....and they seem to offer desert tours in an M35 and other vehicles. I am not sure if this is the same company that I used years ago. http://www.californiaoverland.com/desert_tours.html

Take care,

Brent

 

[rchalmers3]

My contribution to this discussion is about roll over protection. As you prepare to insure for operating with passengers, you may want to clarify with the insurance provider that you will or will not provide ROPS. Engineering a ROPS would be prohibitive and thus it is important to have your insurance carrier sign off on your equipment, driving parameters and the terrain you will cover. Low speeds, helmets and insurance will probably have to be sufficient!

One more thought: I once provided a truck to a company that put a deuce into the adventure tour business. These guys did seats arranged in a theater configuration: individual seats in rows, facing forward with the first row elevated to be able to look over the driver (soft top or a canopy that covers the driver?), and each subsequent row elevated about 1 foot, lending each row an unobstructed forward view. The truck was fitted with a dazzling array of trinkets to make it look adventurous: jerry cans, camo netting, axes, shovels, spare tires, warning signs and so on.

Best wishes and encouragement to you. 16 passengers at $30 per head for 3 hours....... not too bad for a days work.

Rick

 

[PapaPumpSD]

Hi Ken,

I think what you're offering the public is great. I would recommend that you review the local competition's offerings. Furthermore, I would recommend that you review market rates for "adventure tours". I think what you're offering is under valued (I'm assuming that, based on previous posts, you're selling at ~$40/seat). In my area (Colorado Springs), pricing for real off-road "adventures" is at least $70 per adult. This is for a "boring" 4x4 trip around 3 hours. I'm not sure of the demographics of your location, but in the Colorado region this is an approximation of pricing. Please, be sure to differentiate your business somehow (from the local competition). Please feel free to contact me to discuss how you can differentiate your business and command a "premium" rate.

All the best,

Brent