M925A2 snow plow install

[tobyS]

Until I get the hydraulic lift on the truck, I will be using the winch to physically raise the plow. I should be able to chain the plow up and free up the winch. Yes the plow is in the way so I considered a fairlead on top of plow or possibly welding a receiver on the plow frame for my snatch block, so I could run the cable under the plow.

Your problem is going to be when you put it down, the wire that was nicely wound around the drum turns it into what others refer to as a birds nest...no longer nicely wound and after doing it a few times, possibly hard to get undone.

It will be interesting to see if you have enough control to keep the winch from pulling up a bit too far...thus proving how strong your frame is.

 

[Goinmxn]

You could do like I have on mine, I use dump trailer motors, power up gravity down, cheap and easy. Going on 3 seasons of VDOT plowing with not 1 issue. Here is my latest mount for ideas, and one on a Stewart Stevenson as well.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Until I get the hydraulic lift on the truck, I will be using the winch to physically raise the plow. I should be able to chain the plow up and free up the winch. Yes the plow is in the way so I considered a fairlead on top of plow or possibly welding a receiver on the plow frame for my snatch block, so I could run the cable under the plow.

I woke up thinking about birdsnest in the spool of cable around the winch. Why not make a cable up just long enough to do the job. Instead of tugging on 50' of cable wrapped around the drum, driving the 'pulling' cable through the wind, causing the birdsnest........just use a short cable.

Ok, I'm done and can go back to sleep now. Have a super New Years and let us know how it's going. Have a buddy working on a 925 and wants to add a plow so I'm learning all I can so I can help.

They don't call me Plowboy cuzz I'm good with the ladies!

 

[tobyS]

I have NOS PTO's cheap and can help in sizing hydraulics if you need it. Also have a lead on some positive displacement pumps (but an active ebay, so PM me).

I've made a birds nest with my winch on my crane (too much slack) and had to extend it all the way out and rewind the entire thing with pull against it...(probably about 20 times). Yes a short cable would help, but it doesn't keep the dual use idea working too well.

Have you researched prior threads about putting a plow valve on the 925? I'm wondering if it can take it's pressure from the tank side of the winch valve. In free flow, it has to have the volume that can go through it but the actual flow through a section (to your raise or turn functions) can be a very small flow rate.

As I see it, the plow raise is one function, with a blocked center to hold it up. No down pressure is needed, but the flow must relieve and go to tank for the down. Most plows have 2 single acting turn cylinders and that hooks up like a double acting cylinder with a and b ports, blocked in the center position.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

hey guy, I was up north visiting , that's why I ain't got back to u. i don't have any pics, but I ran push arms from the plow frame to the axel. it did limit the travel of the axel, but u hardly noticed it. I took the pins out when I went on my journeys for better axel movement. I did use a 12v elec hyd. pump and it worked no problem off 24 V until it gave up 7 yrs later. it was used when I put it in the truck though. good luck and have fun.

 

[Jbulach]

A three circuit manual valve would be able to give some fluid to two, and possibly a third if you were not winching fast. I forget the flow rates but I think the winch max is about 25 gallons/minute where your plow needs maybe 5-6 to lift and less to turn it.

The winches hydraulic pump on my truck has a max rating of 27 gpm, 3000 psi, and 2700 rpm.

I have yet to put a tachometer on the pto to see if it runs at 1:1 ratio with the trucks engine, but if it is 1:1 It will be delivering about 5 gpm at idle and 10 gpm at 1100 rpm and around 18 gpm at the winches maximum safe operating rpm of 1800 rpm.

Most of my plow movement will likely be done at idle.

 

[Jbulach]

Your problem is going to be when you put it down, the wire that was nicely wound around the drum turns it into what others refer to as a birds nest...no longer nicely wound and after doing it a few times, possibly hard to get undone.

It will be interesting to see if you have enough control to keep the winch from pulling up a bit too far...thus proving how strong your frame is.

I have several ideas on how to control the birds nesting as well as lifting to far, but wont know how it goes until I get the plow on.

 

[Jbulach]

You could do like I have on mine, I use dump trailer motors, power up gravity down, cheap and easy. Going on 3 seasons of VDOT plowing with not 1 issue. Here is my latest mount for ideas, and one on a Stewart Stevenson as well.

Is your axle able to slide up and down in the mount? I'm wonder if it wants to bind when the springs flex?

 

[tobyS]

I think the PTO turns at about 1.4 x the engine rpm, I'll confirm that. If i'm not mistaken there are 77 teeth on the Allison in the 5 tons and 55 on the AT 1545 in an A3 deuce.

I just counted the PTO and the gear that mates to the tranny is 25 teeth and the reduction inside had 28 on the driven and 14 on the driver or 1/2. So the engine rpm is 77/25 or just over 3 times the engine and then it's reduced in half or just over 1.5x. So 1000 rpm is going to turn a bit over 1500 on a 923...

One way you might keep it from coming loose might be to use bungee cords and wrap the unused portion rather tightly. You will probably only use about 6" or so, so once hooked up, you could secure the rest to the drum.

 

[Goinmxn]

No binding issues at all, not even wear marks on the axles after running for 3 plow seasons. The suspension when it is compressed moves back slightly due the motion of the shackles. The plow mount pivots in an arch due to the way it is pinned to the front bumper. We used a skid steer to push down on the axle and watch the motion. No binding when compressed. It was very difficult to get the suspension to move at all really.

 

[dom1986ck30]

Hi... I was wondering, since I am new, of how to post or thread a topic. Mahalo

 

[Jbulach]

I have NOS PTO's cheap and can help in sizing hydraulics if you need it. Also have a lead on some positive displacement pumps (but an active ebay, so PM me)....

....Have you researched prior threads about putting a plow valve on the 925? I'm wondering if it can take it's pressure from the tank side of the winch valve. In free flow, it has to have the volume that can go through it but the actual flow through a section (to your raise or turn functions) can be a very small flow rate.

As I see it, the plow raise is one function, with a blocked center to hold it up. No down pressure is needed, but the flow must relieve and go to tank for the down. Most plows have 2 single acting turn cylinders and that hooks up like a double acting cylinder with a and b ports, blocked in the center position.

Yeah, hydraulics are not my forte. I'd rather not have to change too much of the existing setup.

I seem to remember seeing a m925 install where someone ended up using a electric powered hydraulic unit for the lift function, due to not being able to hold the plow up with the trucks open center hydraulics and then used the trucks hydraulics for the angle cylinders.

My plow has two 4x20 double acting angle cylinders that are tee'd together and have a much more volume than the single acting 3x10 lift cylinder.

For a start I would love to find a direct replacement for my winch control vale that blocks the work ports while in the neutral position, yet still be compatible with the open center system.
I would think the winch would still function the same, while allowing me to hold my dump bed up without constant manipulation of the control lever.
I could then put quick-couplings on the hoses to the winch and use that to power my angle cylinders, and my electric unit to raise and lower the plow...

 

[Jbulach]

...I just counted the PTO and the gear that mates to the tranny is 25 teeth and the reduction inside had 28 on the driven and 14 on the driver or 1/2. So the engine rpm is 77/25 or just over 3 times the engine and then it's reduced in half or just over 1.5x. So 1000 rpm is going to turn a bit over 1500 on a 923...

One way you might keep it from coming loose might be to use bungee cords and wrap the unused portion rather tightly. You will probably only use about 6" or so, so once hooked up, you could secure the rest to the drum.

Perfect! Guess that explains the 1800 rpm max for winch operation, that would put the pump at its 2700 tpm max.

Yep, that was one of my thoughts if my other ideas don't work, swaddle most of the drum with a 2" strap.

 

[Jbulach]

Hi... I was wondering, since I am new, of how to post or thread a topic. Mahalo

Welcome from Indiana! Click on the appropriate forum, then you should see a the brown "+ Post New Thread" button, center, slight left of your screen...

 

[Jbulach]

Well it started snowing today so I figured I'd put the taxes aside and get back to it.


Frame mounts painted and bolted on.

Top view of plow mount.

It should have fit! Frame mounts drew together 1/4" when I welded them.

A fairly easy fix with a little heat shrinking.

Perfect!

 

[Jbulach]

I picked up some hardware from the local off road shop to build some links to my front axle.

Forward braces welded and painted.


Axle mounts mocked up ready to measure for links.

Links ready to be tacked.

Had fun sand blasting in the snow! Ready for paint.

Painted hopefully ready to bolt on in the morning...

 

[74M35A2]

"Local off road shop.". Jealous. I thought of like 13 different things I would like to build with just the parts you pictured, let alone what else they have there.

Cool to see ideas take to metal. Keep going.

 

[71DeuceAK]

Hey Jbulach, looks good! Post overall truck pics when done! I'm curious as to how the finished install will look as someone who may be getting one of these soon myself.

 

[Jbulach]

"Local off road shop.". Jealous. I thought of like 13 different things I would like to build with just the parts you pictured, let alone what else they have there.

Cool to see ideas take to metal. Keep going.

Thorbros and RuffStuff Specialties are both good places for a lot of cool fab parts, only limits are mind and wallet...

 

[Jbulach]

Hey Jbulach, looks good! Post overall truck pics when done! I'm curious as to how the finished install will look as someone who may be getting one of these soon myself.

Will do! I hope to get the plow pined on tomorrow, If so I'll back it out of the shop and take a couple.