M927 as a Food Truck? Looking for advice

[Jim Deggys]

I have a mockup with one axle in the rear or "bobbed". This is my last option because I want to keep the 6x6 look. The link is of the Del Popolo food truck which is a single rear axle and I feel it looks good, but not quite the tough look im going for. https://mobilefoodnews.com/san-fran...-truck-bucket-list/ca-sanfrancisco-delpopolo/

Can you go to one axle in the rear? A softer spring + air bag would give a better ride (doing that on my A3). Here is the on-top-of spring air bag mount for my 4x4 project. It's offset to stay away from rubbing the frame and is held on by the Ubolts. I would think you could get all the weight capacity you need from one 5 ton axle and save $$ on tires and get better mileage too. My choice would be an A2 as well.


There is a nice M934A2 in the classified that would make a great start.

 

[Jim Deggys]

Thanks! I came across a guy who drives a M923a2 and said he has a class c with an air brake cert.

CDL requirements will vary by state, but in most states as long as you are just driving he truck straight and not towing you should be OK with a Class B CDL. If you start towing a trailer then you start getting into Class A territory.

 

[Jim Deggys]

can you send some installed pics of the airbags on your A3.

Can you go to one axle in the rear? A softer spring + air bag would give a better ride (doing that on my A3). Here is the on-top-of spring air bag mount for my 4x4 project. It's offset to stay away from rubbing the frame and is held on by the Ubolts. I would think you could get all the weight capacity you need from one 5 ton axle and save $$ on tires and get better mileage too. My choice would be an A2 as well.

There is a nice M934A2 in the classified that would make a great start.

 

[Jim Deggys]

Thanks, the 46" tires are definitely the way i will go, that will keep me under 12'

Okay so I am the proud owner of a few 927/8 and I see a couple of things I would probably do. First run 395's for tires they are 46" tall and look mean if you ask me. The bed is 20' long so if you shift it forward to the back of the cab you will not get any real over hang off the back of the frame. The picture you show of the new setup puts the oven at the rear, if you are worried about vibration I would swapends and put it to the front and vent it out the front side for roof clearance. Also if you put the entrance in the rear it will put less weight on the rear of the truck and this should help the ride also. They turn like a battleship but should be better than that M35A3 .

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[Jim Deggys]

Im in Louisiana, One of the questions I forgot to ask in my original post was: How easy would it be to move the rears back a few feet on the M923A2? The Deuce has rivets and very difficult to move the rears without cutting the frame. I noticed the 5ton rears are bolted and the frame still has a few feet of length that I could move the rears. I don't have exact measurements but think the rears would need to slide back 8 feet or so. I would only need to weld on a 3-4 foot piece "keeping the original frame in tact.

I asked for some help on the Deuce board during my build and felt the "heinous crime" since i mutilated my deuce. Could you PM me some pics and details of the M928 you have?

FYI, the XLWB trucks are pretty rare. If you're cutting the frame to modify it you may want to modify or extend a 923. I have an M928A1 I'd do things like this to but only because it has been highly modified to begin with. Where you located? I have a 928 that needs a motor and lacks the original bed that wouldn't be as heinous of a crime to cut up.

 

[Jim Deggys]

This is the single axle mock up Its a nice looking truck and an easier option. It also gives me the better layout.

Can you go to one axle in the rear? A softer spring + air bag would give a better ride (doing that on my A3). Here is the on-top-of spring air bag mount for my 4x4 project. It's offset to stay away from rubbing the frame and is held on by the Ubolts. I would think you could get all the weight capacity you need from one 5 ton axle and save $$ on tires and get better mileage too. My choice would be an A2 as well.

There is a nice M934A2 in the classified that would make a great start.

 

[Jim Deggys]

You are 100% correct, I would have been better off with a 5 ton. I was scared off when someone said class CDL and found out that the class A CDL school was expensive and took a while. From what I gather its a pretty easy cert since a full blown Class A is not required. The Deuce is an awesome truck but the issues ib=ve ran into have been:

-Finding wheels and tires for the Deuce. You are limited to a very rare bolt pattern.
-To get the wheels width "side to side" to equal 8ft, which is the width of the container, I had to perform a hub flip, buy 10 old wheels and 10 new tires, then find someone with insurance to install split rims
-The frame had to be reinforced behind the cab since my 2,500 lb oven sits there
-We added 13 total feet to the wheel base which makes the turning radius stupid "next build I will only add 5-6 feet.
-I went with a 40ft "high cube" container cut down to 24'. The length is appropriate due to the expected customer volume I was going to have with my AAFES contract. I was going to feed rotational soldiers at Ft. Polk so I needed 4 extra feet to meet all of ft polk's regulations. Long story short the truck was never intended to be a daily driver. I was supposed to drive it to Polk and park it forever as per my contract. Upon completion of the build AAFES backed out of the contract completely screwing me. Now im a daily driver so the high cube option makes me feel top heavy. However, its been at some very good slopes and never tipped at all. I feel its just the off-road suspension doing its job.
-Im driving "praying" the transmission doesn't crap out because its difficult to find them
-im limited to a 45 mile range since the deuce tops out at 45mph. Ive been invited to some events $5-10K and didn't want to drive 45mph there.
-There aren't any scales around me so I haven weighed it but have calculated being at 24-25k.
-The dual setup is necessary and gave it the right look i was looking for

I plan to remove the oven within 6 months and move into an actual restaurant. Then decommission the deuce as a permanent billboard infant of my restaurant. Its basically a roadside landmark and is very popular here in my town.

This is why i'm researching 5 tons as the base. I feel I can have a daily driver and reach those $5-$10K events that are 500 miles away

With the 5ton I wouldn't have had any of those issues.

Hey Jim, can you give us a quick refresh on some of the details and battles of your last build? I think I remember you battling weight, stability and getting wider track width to match the 8’ sea can on your m35? I just remember thinking a 5 ton would have been soooo much better of a platform to start with. Whats the approximate weight of your oven, and are you going to stretch the wheelbase on the m927 as well, or leave it stock?

I don’t think you’ll want or need bags on the 5ton. Wes probably has something to increase your track width, not sure if ge ever tried out the dual setup from the MaxPro or not, but I think that would be a cool setup for you if it can be made to work.

 

[Jim Deggys]

Also,

I measured "roughly estimated" using google maps the turning radius to be 108ft, lol its ridiculous but actually doable in the downtown streets of a city. The turning radius of a deuce is 35ft, now it's 108ft with the 13ft addition of frame. I added 13ft to the wheelbase bringing the addition of 5.6ft of turning radius for every 1ft i added to the wheelbase. 108-35=73, 73/13=5.6ft. "please check my math" So if the turning radius of the 5ton is 43ft and I add 6ft to the wheel base, my turning radius should be 76.5 which is a very large improvement over my current setup. Then adding power steering would be the best on my shoulders.

Hey Jim, can you give us a quick refresh on some of the details and battles of your last build? I think I remember you battling weight, stability and getting wider track width to match the 8’ sea can on your m35? I just remember thinking a 5 ton would have been soooo much better of a platform to start with. Whats the approximate weight of your oven, and are you going to stretch the wheelbase on the m927 as well, or leave it stock?

I don’t think you’ll want or need bags on the 5ton. Wes probably has something to increase your track width, not sure if ge ever tried out the dual setup from the MaxPro or not, but I think that would be a cool setup for you if it can be made to work.

 

[Jbulach]

If you have a line on a good deal xlwb truck, and could work with it’s stock wheel base would be ideal. No dicking with truck other than pushing your track width out for looks, but doubt would be necessary for stability.

Looks like about 22 rivets in the 5ton boggie, but easily removed with a mag drill, and the center point removed from an annular cutter, without risk of heating and gouging frame.

You could move the M923 boggie back 5’ on the frame before the main mounts hit the end, back axle and bump stops would be off the end, but could be easily made to work.

It would be awesome if you could move that box to a 5 ton, but the wheel base it’s set up for is killer in my opinion.


I’m just guessing your comparing diamiter to radius. 52’ radius sounds more realistic for your stretched truck vs stock 35, but maths not my strong suit! I’m also guessing that the 5ton steering angle on the front axle is even less than the m35 that your used to, maybe someone that knows for sure can chime in, if not let me know if you need, I can measure my full lock angle and you can compare to yours. I can also confirm the turning circle on the m923/925 as well when I get a chance if needed.

 

[porkysplace]

Thanks! I came across a guy who drives a M923a2 and said he has a class c with an air brake cert.

From the Louisiana CDL book it looks like you need a CDL B with air brakes 5tons have a GVWR over 26,000 pounds.

You need an Louisiana CDL when you operate the following vehicles:
CLASS A – Applies only to “combination” vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) more than 26,000 pounds, and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds. A driver with a Class A CDL (plus any appropriate endorsements) can also operate all vehicles included in Class B, C, and D (below)

CLASS B – Includes single or combination vehicles where the GVWR of the single vehicle is more than 26,000 pounds. The vehicle being pulled must not be more than 10,000 pounds. A driver with an Louisiana Class B CDL (plus appropriate endorsements) can also legally operate all vehicles in Class C or D

CLASS C – Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

 

[Jim Deggys]

Thats some great info, you obviously have access to a M923. Anyway you could measure from the back cab to the front rear tire. basically trying to see the distance from the cab to where the rears already sit. Also the distance between the 2 main mounts of the boogie. Knowing my luck I will have to add 1ft to the frame and need to see if there is room to add a fishplate when welding the frame addition together. The pic is a side by side comparison

I was sure that the back axle and tire would extend past the end of the frame. The shipping container will hang past the rear of the boggie by 5ft or so. My rear generator box will mount to the bottom side of the shipping containers overhang area. So that should not be an issue at all.

I measured the highway where I normally turn around 180deg. My turn is shoulder to shoulder across a 4 lane hwy equalling 108ft diameter "my bad, not radius, i failed h.s. math"

The turn of the deuce was limited by an adjustable bolt in the steering. I bottomed the bolt out to get the most turn I could. I was told though to never fully turn my wheels when front wheel drive is engaged or I would break the axle.

Much appreciated with all of the help, I don't think at this time I would need any turning measurements.

If you have a line on a good deal xlwb truck, and could work with it’s stock wheel base would be ideal. No dicking with truck other than pushing your track width out for looks, but doubt would be necessary for stability.

Looks like about 22 rivets in the 5ton boggie, but easily removed with a mag drill, and the center point removed from an annular cutter, without risk of heating and gouging frame.

You could move the M923 boggie back 5’ on the frame before the main mounts hit the end, back axle and bump stops would be off the end, but could be easily made to work.

It would be awesome if you could move that box to a 5 ton, but the wheel base it’s set up for is killer in my opinion.


I’m just guessing your comparing diamiter to radius. 52’ radius sounds more realistic for your stretched truck vs stock 35, but maths not my strong suit! I’m also guessing that the 5ton steering angle on the front axle is even less than the m35 that your used to, maybe someone that knows for sure can chime in, if not let me know if you need, I can measure my full lock angle and you can compare to yours. I can also confirm the turning circle on the m923/925 as well when I get a chance if needed.

 

[Jim Deggys]

Thanks for the info, Do you by any chance know how in-depth the Class B rating is? Is it something I an attend a school bus driver class and then watch a Youtube video and pass? I could never pass a Class A CDL without a school.

From the Louisiana CDL book it looks like you need a CDL B with air brakes 5tons have a GVWR over 26,000 pounds.

You need an Louisiana CDL when you operate the following vehicles:
CLASS A – Applies only to “combination” vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) more than 26,000 pounds, and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds. A driver with a Class A CDL (plus any appropriate endorsements) can also operate all vehicles included in Class B, C, and D (below)

CLASS B – Includes single or combination vehicles where the GVWR of the single vehicle is more than 26,000 pounds. The vehicle being pulled must not be more than 10,000 pounds. A driver with an Louisiana Class B CDL (plus appropriate endorsements) can also legally operate all vehicles in Class C or D

CLASS C – Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

 

[porkysplace]

Thanks for the info, Do you by any chance know how in-depth the Class B rating is? Is it something I an attend a school bus driver class and then watch a Youtube video and pass? I could never pass a Class A CDL without a school.

The Pre-trip inspection is where most people fail their CDL test. If you can pass the written part and get your learners permit , most schools will deal on the driving and road test part of the classes .

 

[Jbulach]

Looks like about 52”max from cab to tire, hope the resolution on this pic is good enough to answer your other question, 27.75” outside to outside, 19.5” on center, 11” inside to inside.

 

[Jim Deggys]

I would need about 8 inches more to make half of the box. This sketchup shows the tires a little forward of half However, It really wouldn't be that noticeable pushing everything 8 inches. Thanks for the info but i think my biggest challenge is going to be the Class B CDL portion of it. I will eventually have to trust employees driving the truck.

Looks like about 52”max from cab to tire, hope the resolution on this pic is good enough to answer your other question, 27.75” outside to outside, 19.5” on center, 11” inside to inside.View attachment 757815

 

[Jbulach]

I would need about 8 inches more to make half of the box. This sketchup shows the tires a little forward of half View attachment 757817 However, It really wouldn't be that noticeable pushing everything 8 inches. Thanks for the info but i think my biggest challenge is going to be the Class B CDL portion of it. I will eventually have to trust employees driving the truck.

Is this sketchup your current box with the front chopped off, sitting on a M927 wheelbase? That never occurred to me, but might save a bunch of money vs starting from scratch.

 

[Jim Deggys]

Thats a very good idea and would work. My current box is 24' and if i took the front off the box would be 8 ft back which fits the standard 5ton without much modification. Only issue is i'm still at 13 feet since my existing box is not the standard height but a 9ft high cube box. I guess I could always shorten the wheelbase again and bob the boggie for a daily driver.

Is this sketchup your current box with the front chopped off, sitting on a M927 wheelbase? That never occurred to me, but might save a bunch of money vs starting from scratch.

 

[Csm Davis]

Thats a very good idea and would work. My current box is 24' and if i took the front off the box would be 8 ft back which fits the standard 5ton without much modification. Only issue is i'm still at 13 feet since my existing box is not the standard height but a 9ft high cube box. I guess I could always shorten the wheelbase again and bob the boggie for a daily driver.

Jim if you want come over and compare a 923 to a 927 I have both and welcome you to come look and measure. I also have a ISO 927 and ISO 923 which are designed to carry a sea cargo container or ISO container.

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[fasttruck]

CDL requirements are federal so all states are supposed to be the same. A "B" license is as easy or hard as an "A" license except you don't have to back up a trailer. Pre trip inspection, air brake endorsement, yard maneuvers are all the same for both. So is the "written" or computer test. If you have over 1000 pounds of fuel you will have to placard that and obtain a hazardous material endorsement. Most people who fail will fail in the yard and most people who fail in the yard fail the airbrake test task in the yard skills. My greatest driver training victory was to get a 19 year old truck driver who weighed 150 pounds soaking wet, through the class A test in a 359 Peterbilt with a 5X4 double clubber transmission and a 45' trailer. He passed.