M936A2 wrecker 20k front winch

[charlesmann]

Today, I replaced the drain cock for the hydro tank, which meant drain the fluid. I added 2 gal of Lucas hydro stop leak. I ran everything to get the Lucas through all the lines and motors. I got to the front winch and had issues with the drum lock, got that fixed and pulled all the cable out, hooked onto my 10,000# kubota to tension the cable. Since the wife was steering the bota, me running the winch from the inside, I decided after the first 1.5 wraps on the drum, no more getting out to check how it was lying on the drum. WRONG, I balled the cable up on 1 side. I don’t have the line winding mechanism on the operational 936a2 wrecker. The parts truck has it, so I decided I was gonna add it to the running truck. After pulling all the line off the drum, I realized the winding unit seems a bit narrow for it bracketry. It has way to much play, as is the rollers are to big for it, As in the the lips of the rollers sit to far from the winding bridge, causing it to wobble front to back, about 1/2” in both directions. I looked at the drag winch and noticed the lips on the rollers ride really close to the bridge.

Any thoughts? Wrong rollers? If I go to Houston to do some currency flying tomorrow, I’ll post pics tue, if not, I’ll post pics after I get my computer from the repair shop tomorrow afternoon just to clarify what I’m talking about as to the slop between the rollers, and what I’m calling the “bridge”, which is probably not the proper terminology for the apparatus.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

What model wrecker are we talking about please???

Although not all of these were of the A2 level of upgrades, these are your options.....

M62
M246
M543
M553
M816
M819
M936
M984
M1249

ALL are wreckers, 5-Ton or larger. Which is your "A2"??????????

Thanks.

 

[charlesmann]

What model wrecker are we talking about please???

Although not all of these were of the A2 level of upgrades, these are your options.....

M62
M246
M543
M553
M816
M819
M936
M984
M1249

ALL are wreckers, 5-Ton or larger. Which is your "A2"??????????

Thanks.

936

What’s with all the ? marks? How hard would have been to ask your question with just 1 ? mark

I thought I put 936 in my msg body, but no, I didn’t. I’ll rectify that

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Thank you.
I'll update your thread title to aid in future searches and make it readily clear to others.

I'm sure those who have your answers will post up soon.

 

[charlesmann]

Thank you.
I'll update your thread title to aid in future searches and make it readily clear to others.

I'm sure those who have your answers will post up soon.

Already updated the title and main body

 

[charlesmann]

here are th pics of the winding system and bridge and the distance between the guide lips of the rollers and the bridge.
is anyone else's front winch like this?

 

[zebedee]

Your observations are valid, though unless the "bridge" rails are bowed - larger gap at the top than either lower ends, I personally wouldn't worry too much. If you 'shim' the rollers further out, you will unload part of the rollers needle bearing, thus overload the remainder which is not preferable. So long as all the bearings are free and lubricated, the tensioner works correctly, a little play will not effect the performance of the setup.
Per each full wrap layer, the saddle only tracks slowly over the bridge once. It is not a high traffic item.
If the saddle does pull to one side or the other - that side taking slightly more load, that pair of rollers will be tight to the rail and therefore fully supported.
Looking at the multiple layers of paint still on both the rollers and the rails, it appears that the level wind is quite unused, so you should be fine.

 

[charlesmann]

The rollers are not really free turning. I whooped on them with a brass hammer head and got them to “stiffly” free up. The zerks are corroded shut or broke, so i’ll be getting new zerks today, tear the unit down, clean, free up and lube everything and see about getting the mess of cable spooled back up. As for shimming the rollers, I’d rather attempt to shim the bridge and machine new rollers. I just thought it odd the rear is tight, yet the front is sloppy.

 

[zebedee]

I have rebuilt both of mine (M816) and did a thread on each in the 5 ton forum. Needle roller bearing free up, lube point upgrade, possible bearing replacement etc.

 

[charlesmann]

I have rebuilt both of mine (M816) and did a thread on each in the 5 ton forum. Needle roller bearing free up, lube point upgrade, possible bearing replacement etc.

well, i pulled the winding unit apart and the rollers were gummed up bad. after cleaning, i put it back together, but the washers (not the thrust washers) seemed to be pressing against the rollers causing a bit of binding. they were concave towards the rollers, so i turned them so the cave faces outwards and now they roll with ease. I'm thinking whomever tore it down prior to painting, turned them backward upon install.

i did some looking on here and couldn't find the TM/s for the 20k winches. are the winches the same? do you by chance have it/them? i tore a felt ring for the pulley spindle, and the felt wiper/washers for the rollers look a bit over used.

 

[gringeltaube]

............. i did some looking on here and couldn't find the TM/s for the 20k winches. are the winches the same?

Covered here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/5Ton/TM9-3830-501.pdf

 

[charlesmann]

Covered here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/5Ton/TM9-3830-501.pdf

thank you for the link.


now I'm trying to locate the felt seals for the rollers, and the felt o-ring for the pulley spindle.

any of ya'll got any sources using the NSNs? iv searched via p/n and NSNs, eBay, google and several nsn/pn look ups and nothing is showing. mcmaster carr does have raw felt i could make the o-ring for the spindle, but I'm not sure i could make the roller seals.

 

[zebedee]

I just went to Wallyworld/craft store, got a sheet of felt from the fabric section. Cut out "washers" and stacked them up to make the thickness. They only keep the grease clean from crap from outside.

 

[charlesmann]

I just went to Wallyworld/craft store, got a sheet of felt from the fabric section. Cut out "washers" and stacked them up to make the thickness. They only keep the grease clean from crap from outside.

well heck, if that is all they are for, i don't feel bad in accidentally tearing the spindle one then. i'll just make new ones as you did. i guess to many yrs working on things that require oem or equivalent parts has got me to searching for said and specified part replacement.
thank you for your time, effort and help in this matter. i really appreciate it, and I'm sure others will too.

 

[zebedee]

Two relevant threads :-

Level Wind maintenance anomaly, Front Winch : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/level-wind-maintenance-anomoly-front-winch.89201/

Rear Level Wind Servicing Tips: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/rear-level-wind-servicing-tips.130527/

 

[charlesmann]

Two relevant threads :-

Level Wind maintenance anomaly, Front Winch : https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/level-wind-maintenance-anomoly-front-winch.89201/

Rear Level Wind Servicing Tips: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/rear-level-wind-servicing-tips.130527/

thanks for the link. the manual in that IS what i was looking for. i think I'm short a ball bearing, iv got a space that looks like another bearing will fit. i see there is suppose to be 24, so ill go count and if short, evidently they are suppose to be in the 1/2" range, so ill go to mcmaster carr and order some and replace them all. they are shiny black, as is the bearing plates, so I'm not sure if they are suppose to be that color or not, but if I'm missing 1, might as well replace them all. I'm even thinking of having 2 new bearing plates #23 and #25 machined since the lower plate #23 on pg. 420 has some signs of pitting. I'm assuming it hardened, so ill talk to the machinist and see what he recommends.

 

[charlesmann]

does anyone's level winder do this while winding?


the way its wrapping is the only was to wind it. the way i would rather it wind is in the unwind position. not sure if the hyd lines are reversed at the winch motor. in unwind, it spools very slowly compared to the wind direction. would swapping the lines be advisable or could it cause damage?

 

[zebedee]

Er no - it's not wound right or threaded through the level wind/tensioner wrong. Pic too close. Either direction, the cable should leave the drum and go to the level wind cleanly (straight line from drum tangent to tangent of level wind pulley).

 

[charlesmann]

when i pulled the cable off the operational truck drum, the cable entered/departed the drum from the bottom of the drum.
when i pulled the cable off the nonoperational truck to rob the level winder, the cable entered/departed the drum closest to the eng/hood (top of drum). but in order to spool the cable on the drum in the wind direction, which turns at an operational speed, the cable is rubbing against the bridge as shown in the pics. to get the cable to wind where departure/entry is to the back of the drum, i have to run the winch in unwind, which doesn't seem to want to operate properly. (turns very slow, if it turns at all).

would swapping the hyd lines at the winch motor help, to allow the wind to bring the line on/off the drum from the back?


how would the cable not be routed through the winder? in post #6, showing the winder and tensioner. the cable comes in from the bottom, through the tensioner, wraps over the winder pulley, then onto the drum. it can't be routed any other direction.

can someone post pics of their front winch with level winder?

 

[zebedee]

No cable on mine at the moment - but I threw on a strap to show correct routing, also a pic of trolley for you to see roller clearance from earlier query.



Mine is mechanical (M816), but the winch / set up is the same - it should load from the back and pull down - anticlockwise looking from the passenger side.

Remembering that non level wind winches rotate the opposite way, pulling from the bottom, under the bumper, loading clockwise from the passenger side. As far as hydraulics go, switching the plumbing 'may' be all it takes. Someone else can chirp in to confirm....