Massachusetts registration & insurance

[Vintage iron]

I Just completed insurance and registration of my Jeep-Kaiser M813 cargo truck. Massachusetts and it insurance companies are very tricky to deal with some don't give them to much information. Both the Massachusetts RMV and the insurance companies look at anything like a deuce and half or 5 ton as a commercial truck. They don't see these vehicle every day and just don't understand our hobby.

I found that use Hagerty insurance company was very helpful. They insure lots of different types of collector vehicles. They were very helpful and the insurance rate are very inexpensive. Just one think to keep in mind, Hagerty insures collector vehicles. They do not want to hear that you are taking it off-road in anyway or that you will use it as a Camper. If you want to be insured for these uses you will need to find another company. The rest of the companies I contacted were not interested in Insuring a 5 ton military truck. If you do speak with other insurance companies Do Not get into the side of the vehicle. I am not saying to lie, but just don't get into detail. Because they will only picture a commercial dump truck in there head. Once you have a RMV 1 form you will need an application for a antique plate. You will need to fill it out and have it have it Notarized at your bank or a notary. Take these form, your bill of sale, any proof of the previous owners regristration to the RMV.

At the RMV try to be very nice. You don't want to make thing any harder than they already are. Have your RMV 1 completely filled out by you insurance company. Typed in not by hand and NO cross outs! Having all of your paperwork in order help keep things moving. They will not be able to find your vehicle in the N.A.D.A book so they will have to call the Department of revenue for a price. Then I you are nice they may use you price from your bill of sale as a value. (if it is a beleivable price. No one will believe you paid $1.00 dollar for your truck)

I hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Kalashnikov]

When I registered my deuce, I got regular vehicle insurance from Commerce and regular passenger plates from the registry.

When I went to register my XM818 my agent couldn't find any "codes" or way around getting commercial insurance so I went with antique insurance and antique plates through the registry. I didn't get my truck appraised so I'm not covered for theft, fire, vandalism, etc. but I only pay $150/yr.

Both trucks weren't found using the VINs. I believe either a zero was dropped at the beginning of the VIN or end to get around the issue.

They charged sales tax by the price on the BOS. Surprisingly I didn't have any major issues registering and insuring either truck. From the sounds of it, other states are getting worse than MA for motor vehicles.

 

[paulfarber]

Its VERY COMMON to get 'commercial insurance' for a deuce... it means nothing... other than you have commercial insurance. You are not automatically obliged to get a CDL (unless your state requires it due to weight) and a DOT number etc.

Having Hagerty means you can do almost NOTHING with your truck. Only to events/parades NOT A DAILY DRIVER.

Go back and talk to the insurance co's and if they mention commercial insurance so what... as long as you meet state insurance minimums and the policy (you should only need liability) is inexpensive get it.... your collectors insurance may not back you up because you are not operating the vehicle as they expect you to.

 

[Vintage iron]

Well Paul, I am not sure of your experience in our Fine State, but let me tell you that Massachusetts is one of the toughest states to register and insure a vehicle. As I have stated before "in my experience Mass. only like two types of vehicles personal and commercial" This is what they would like, NOT the truth! I don't think it is good for our hobby to register or insure our vehicles as commercial. I had done my homework before purchasing a MV here in Mass. and I found out that commercial insurance is very expensive and registering the vehicle is mass is just as bad. IF YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT TO REGISTERED AND INSURE A VEHICLE, GET A CDL AND PAY TAXES OUT THE ASS. THEN GET A COMMERCIAL TRUCK. NOT A MV!

I know a great guy from Eastham Ma. that registers his as a RV/camper. but he has a portable toilet, bed and stove in the back. Some RV weight as much as our vehicles and you don't need a CDL. There are different ways you can do it. If anyone else wants to help out that would be great! If anyone here in Mass has registered and insured thir MV as commercail please let us know. Tell us what it costs to insure you Duece or 5 Ton, how much is the registration a year, did you need to get a CDL and have you been pulled over yet.

 

[treeguy]

I went the commercial route. $1200 a year in insurance thru Safety Insurance and $250 a year to register it (every year). Also I learned the hard way that if this is your only insured vehicle that any trailer you reg. and ins. you have to pay your ins. an aditional $150 per trailer. That adds up quick. Usually trailers are no biggie with regular pass. reg. and ins. but because of the commercial this is MA's requirement. The pain of having to pay all that hurts but I can't justify any other way to do it.

 

[Vintage iron]

When I registered my deuce, I got regular vehicle insurance from Commerce and regular passenger plates from the registry.

When I went to register my XM818 my agent couldn't find any "codes" or way around getting commercial insurance so I went with antique insurance and antique plates through the registry. I didn't get my truck appraised so I'm not covered for theft, fire, vandalism, etc. but I only pay $150/yr.

Both trucks weren't found using the VINs. I believe either a zero was dropped at the beginning of the VIN or end to get around the issue.

They charged sales tax by the price on the BOS. Surprisingly I didn't have any major issues registering and insuring either truck. From the sounds of it, other states are getting worse than MA for motor vehicles. "

The reason they can't find your VIN # is because these vehicles were issued serial number and where sold just to the military. Yes I believe the fees and taxes under Antique plates were great! Oh, yeah. I thought MV was short for Military Vehicle?

 

[Vintage iron]

Wow! Good to know. Thanks tree guy! Lots of military vehicle collectors in the area. It is great to see!

 

[treeguy]

Ya, its nice to see fellow MV people nearby. Two and a half years ago when I got my deuce I didn't know if there were any others around. Also regarding insurance and reg., don't think any of you can fool your ins. co or registry. Don't forget about GOOGLE. Duh, all you have to do is Google image search M35A2 or whatever else you have and bingo, they can see what you are trying to do. Thats what my ins. lady did.

 

[treeguy]

I'm actually headed out right now to Hyannis in the big green machine.

 

[n1bnc]

I had no trouble at all with Commerce through AAA. It was dirt cheap and the antique plates were the way to go.

 

[Vintage iron]

"Don't forget about GOOGLE. Duh, all you have to do is Google image search M35A2 or whatever else you have and bingo, they can see what you are trying to do. Thats what my ins. lady did."

So did one of the insurance companies I called! LOL I believe when you talk to insurance companies you should think your in court. Keep your answers short and don't give them to much information! See you around the Cape soon. Watch out for drunk Irish students on bikes!

 

[paulfarber]

Well Paul, I am not sure of your experience in our Fine State, but let me tell you that Massachusetts is one of the toughest states to register and insure a vehicle. As I have stated before "in my experience Mass. only like two types of vehicles personal and commercial" This is what they would like, NOT the truth! I don't think it is good for our hobby to register or insure our vehicles as commercial. I had done my homework before purchasing a MV here in Mass. and I found out that commercial insurance is very expensive and registering the vehicle is mass is just as bad. IF YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT TO REGISTERED AND INSURE A VEHICLE, GET A CDL AND PAY TAXES OUT THE ASS. THEN GET A COMMERCIAL TRUCK. NOT A MV!

I know a great guy from Eastham Ma. that registers his as a RV/camper. but he has a portable toilet, bed and stove in the back. Some RV weight as much as our vehicles and you don't need a CDL. There are different ways you can do it. If anyone else wants to help out that would be great! If anyone here in Mass has registered and insured thir MV as commercail please let us know. Tell us what it costs to insure you Duece or 5 Ton, how much is the registration a year, did you need to get a CDL and have you been pulled over yet.

Commercial Insurance does not put you into CDL territory. The insurance company could call it 'pink pony insurance' and the state won't care.

Now if the truck meets the STATE requirements by weight or # of axles then you need a CDL to drive the truck.

You make it sound like its the insurance company is selling you commercial insurance so you NEED commercial licenses's... that is incorrect. You need to meet the state insurance minimums.

It doesn't sound like you need a CDL for a deuce:

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/cdlmanual/CDL_Manual_Intro.pdf

On October 26, 1986, Congress passed the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986. This law required each State to
meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. The standards required commercial motor vehicle drivers
to get a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). You must have a CDL to operate any of the following Commercial Motor Vehicles
(CMVs):
a) A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.
b) A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000
pounds.
c) A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the operator).
d) Any size vehicle which requires hazardous materials placards.

Antique insurance is cheap because they won't pay if you use the vehicle outside of the allowed limits. Read those limits... you can't even carry passengers in most cases. What good is $150 insurance policy when they decline to pay because you operated the vehicle outside of the agreed limits?

 

[Kalashnikov]

Its VERY COMMON to get 'commercial insurance' for a deuce... it means nothing... other than you have commercial insurance. You are not automatically obliged to get a CDL (unless your state requires it due to weight) and a DOT number etc.

Having Hagerty means you can do almost NOTHING with your truck. Only to events/parades NOT A DAILY DRIVER.

Go back and talk to the insurance co's and if they mention commercial insurance so what... as long as you meet state insurance minimums and the policy (you should only need liability) is inexpensive get it.... your collectors insurance may not back you up because you are not operating the vehicle as they expect you to.

Commercial insurance is VERY expensive compared to antique. My ins. agent specifically said this which is why I went antique.

You can also drive it for preparations for events, to and from repair shops as well. This would include driving it to your work or a buddy's to do maintenance.

Commercial Insurance does not put you into CDL territory. The insurance company could call it 'pink pony insurance' and the state won't care.

Now if the truck meets the STATE requirements by weight or # of axles then you need a CDL to drive the truck.

You make it sound like its the insurance company is selling you commercial insurance so you NEED commercial licenses's... that is incorrect. You need to meet the state insurance minimums.

It doesn't sound like you need a CDL for a deuce:

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/cdlmanual/CDL_Manual_Intro.pdf

On October 26, 1986, Congress passed the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986. This law required each State to
meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. The standards required commercial motor vehicle drivers
to get a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). You must have a CDL to operate any of the following Commercial Motor Vehicles
(CMVs):
a) A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.
b) A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000
pounds.
c) A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the operator).
d) Any size vehicle which requires hazardous materials placards.

Antique insurance is cheap because they won't pay if you use the vehicle outside of the allowed limits. Read those limits... you can't even carry passengers in most cases. What good is $150 insurance policy when they decline to pay because you operated the vehicle outside of the agreed limits?

He was talking about his M813 which is over 26k GVWR requring a CDL. Although if you registered it for only 26k and not the full rating you could get around that,

 

[paulfarber]

Opps... I completely missed the M813 part... my bad.

I pay *maybe* $20 more for commercial insurance than what any antique insurance was for a deuce. Most antique quotes were around $200. I pay $90 for my 42 GPW through American Collectors, and my 43 CCKW was $110.

Many people have gotten State Farm insurance for MVs.. full use privileges (tow, cargo, people).

 

[Kalashnikov]

Opps... I completely missed the M813 part... my bad.

I pay *maybe* $20 more for commercial insurance than what any antique insurance was for a deuce. Most antique quotes were around $200. I pay $90 for my 42 GPW through American Collectors, and my 43 CCKW was $110.

Many people have gotten State Farm insurance for MVs.. full use privileges (tow, cargo, people).

Yea, but isn't this in PA?

MA doesn't have any restrictions on towing or cargo with antique rplates. It's just you can't daily drive it pretty much.

 

[paulfarber]

I have yet to find an antique insurance co that would allow much more than 'to from events', cargo, passengers.

Hagerty REQUIRES a garaged vehicle, you CANNOT off road and you must own a daily use vehicles.

Ditto for American Collectors.

No antique policy is going to allow the same privileges as a regular policy.

Yes, antique policies vary by state, but the limitations are set by the underwriter... not any state agency.

Search for State Farm on the board... lots-o-people are daily driving MVs with them for very little cash.

My biggest thing is that a ANTIQUE policy severely limits your ability to drive... its cheap for a reason... that reason is the limits you agree to.

 

[Vintage iron]

Thanks for everyone's input. But my intention for thread was to help new MV owners to navigate there was thought Mass. registration and insurance. I am looking for input from people who have MV in Mass. and to have them post up what they have found. Yes, I want to know the laws that that pertain to my Vehicle too. I am planing on getting my CDL and keeping the truck maintained properly, but still DO NOT feel that commercial insurance is the right way to go right now. If I find myself using the vehicle more or for commercial purposes then maybe I will entertain it. It would be nice to talk to a expert on this and not go by hear say. I have friends in law enforcement and will try to speak with them to find a expect on this issue. I will invest my time and money to fully investigate this issue and post my finding. I feel that it will be in the best interest for our hobby!

 

[paulfarber]

I submit that you did what the DMV/RMV told you rather than do what you needed.

1. You don't need a CDL. You need a Class A license.
2. If you get a CDL and tag it as an antique that makes NO SENSE. A CDL == COMMERCE, and an antique vehicle would never pass a DOT inspection.
3. Your insurance company sets your operating limits more than the state.
4. Commercial insurance != used in commerce. Many ins co's simply don't touch 'pleasure/recreational' vehicles over 10k
5. NEVER EVER BELIEVE THE DMV.
6. Use an agent, don't call Big Ins Co direct... the drones on the phones are morons... yes, they are actually dumber than local agents.
7. Your state is not that much different from other states.... except CA.



Of course you can do the opposite of what I posted... but you would spend more, not be covered by your antique insurance when you use the truck.

 

[Vintage iron]

Sorry, Paul I didn't understand you. Maybe you should change your avatar? I can't think with a boner!

 

[treeguy]

Kalish', I don't remember if I mentioned this to you or not, but when I spoke to my ins. co. about antique plates, they said no go because the deuce is too heavy. And the $1200 I mentioned is with the GVW amended to 1500# with the registry. If I went full GVW with the deuce I don't know where the fees would end. I also have a CDL and now I have a commercial truck, so I feel that I can do what I want and not be restricted to garaging and fair weather use, although I believe that I am required to stop at all active weigh stations. The only options that I could find in MA was commercial or camper with all the required gear to prove it, the trucks are just way to heavy for our weak state. Oh well, the price you pay to play, it will bleed you dry.

Any of you Cape Cod guys doing the 4th parade in Hyannis or other local areas? I might try to show up early to jump into Hyannis'.