Massachusetts registration & insurance

[Kalashnikov]

Kalish', I don't remember if I mentioned this to you or not, but when I spoke to my ins. co. about antique plates, they said no go because the deuce is too heavy. And the $1200 I mentioned is with the GVW amended to 1500# with the registry. If I went full GVW with the deuce I don't know where the fees would end. I also have a CDL and now I have a commercial truck, so I feel that I can do what I want and not be restricted to garaging and fair weather use, although I believe that I am required to stop at all active weigh stations. The only options that I could find in MA was commercial or camper with all the required gear to prove it, the trucks are just way to heavy for our weak state. Oh well, the price you pay to play, it will bleed you dry.

Any of you Cape Cod guys doing the 4th parade in Hyannis or other local areas? I might try to show up early to jump into Hyannis'.

Hmm, that's weird. I don't remember what I put for GVW on my M818 but it was at least as much as a deuce.

As for weight stations, you shouldn't need to stop since you arent actually using the truck in commerce. But you know how that goes, every one is different.

There is a guy in Milford, MA that had an M818 with a bed like mine running antique plates as well.

 

[treeguy]

Ya, I've heard of some people using the antique plates on their deuce, but I must have been too honest. I must be using the wrong agent although the couple I did talk to said no dice.

 

[bellyacre]

Incoming

I am new to this forum and can't help myself. Although this thread re: Mass Reg and Insurance was posted last year i still feel i can contribute some informantion based on facts presented.

I know you Don't want to hear this but i am a Retired Massachusetts State Trooper, whom one of my duties was as a DOT Inspector.

There are 3 COMPLETLY Separate issues here. 1) registration, 2) Insurance, 3) licensing, lets not forget the inspection sticker.

1) Registration, Taxachusetts defines a Commerial motor vehicle 540 cmr 2.05(3) "any vehicle with 5 or more wheels on the ground" (must be odd looking) so i.e a deuce is commercial. well you might just go with super singles, again they've got ya, "any vehicle with a curb weight over 6,000 lbs per manufacturer" is commercial. antique motor car plates might be used providing,

“Antique motor car”, any motor vehicle over twenty-five years old which is maintained solely for use in exhibitions, club activities, parades and other functions of public interest and which is not used primarily for the transportation of passengers or goods over any way, provided that the application for registration thereof is accompanied by an affidavit upon a form provided by the registrar which shall include a statement of the age and intended use of such motor vehicle. So don't get caught at Lowe's loading lumber in it.

2). Insurance, i can't speak to that question.

3). Licensing. under 540 cmr2.06 (Code of Mass Regulations) we (Taxachusetts) have adopted the same requirement for drivers linenses as the Federal Govt requires for Truckers. (49 CFR 383) whether or not used in commerce. so once the GVWR of your truck is 26,001 lbs are higher, or actual weight, or registered weight, then you need a CDL. at that point the question is, does the vehicle have air brakes ? under 540 cmr 2.06(4)(d)2 a vehicle with air assist IS a vehicle with air brakes for the purpose of a restriction.

4) State Inspection sticker laws for commercial vehicles goes up my backside a foot. the state adopted the federal DOT inspection regulations and have applied them to NON Commerce vehicles. simply put a dually pickup truck (daily driver, personal use only) with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs is inspected the same as a tractor trailer. a state inspection is $29.00. but for a commercial vehicle its the $29.00, PLUS a minimum of $85.00 labor rate for the gas station to inspect the truck. thats a minimum of $114.00 EVERY year

the registration fees in this state are $20.00 per every 1,000 pounds of registered weight. my 3500 dodge dually was registered at the GVWR plate rating of 12,000 lbs. thats $240.00 EVERY year. i dropped it to 10,000 lbs and saved $40.00

Lastly. if a scale house is open in Mass. legally your in a commercial vehicle, ( the sign says ALL commercial vehicles enter) granted it's your own personal vehicle. non the less. it's easier to roll over the scales and show them your new truck, as soon as you start talking to the trooper he will see your a MV buff and not in a commercial enterprise. at that point your on your way. they might not stop to chat with you, just wave you right on thru. remember he's human too. he puts his pants on just like you, one leg at a time. (of course some of them i wonder about)

 

[Vintage iron]

So under these rules you need a Cdl for a Ryder truck or a one of those large bus rv. That is Massachusetts for you. Make the laws intimidating and opaque so the common tax payer can not navigate there way though the rules of the road. My father was a state trooper and I am a Marine so my lack of trust is with the laws not the messengers!

 

[jaymcb]

I am new to this forum and can't help myself. Although this thread re: Mass Reg and Insurance was posted last year i still feel i can contribute some informantion based on facts presented.

I know you Don't want to hear this but i am a Retired Massachusetts State Trooper, whom one of my duties was as a DOT Inspector.

There are 3 COMPLETLY Separate issues here. 1) registration, 2) Insurance, 3) licensing, lets not forget the inspection sticker.

1) Registration, Taxachusetts defines a Commerial motor vehicle 540 cmr 2.05(3) "any vehicle with 5 or more wheels on the ground" (must be odd looking) so i.e a deuce is commercial. well you might just go with super singles, again they've got ya, "any vehicle with a curb weight over 6,000 lbs per manufacturer" is commercial. antique motor car plates might be used providing,

“Antique motor car”, any motor vehicle over twenty-five years old which is maintained solely for use in exhibitions, club activities, parades and other functions of public interest and which is not used primarily for the transportation of passengers or goods over any way, provided that the application for registration thereof is accompanied by an affidavit upon a form provided by the registrar which shall include a statement of the age and intended use of such motor vehicle. So don't get caught at Lowe's loading lumber in it.

2). Insurance, i can't speak to that question.

3). Licensing. under 540 cmr2.06 (Code of Mass Regulations) we (Taxachusetts) have adopted the same requirement for drivers linenses as the Federal Govt requires for Truckers. (49 CFR 383) whether or not used in commerce. so once the GVWR of your truck is 26,001 lbs are higher, or actual weight, or registered weight, then you need a CDL. at that point the question is, does the vehicle have air brakes ? under 540 cmr 2.06(4)(d)2 a vehicle with air assist IS a vehicle with air brakes for the purpose of a restriction.

4) State Inspection sticker laws for commercial vehicles goes up my backside a foot. the state adopted the federal DOT inspection regulations and have applied them to NON Commerce vehicles. simply put a dually pickup truck (daily driver, personal use only) with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs is inspected the same as a tractor trailer. a state inspection is $29.00. but for a commercial vehicle its the $29.00, PLUS a minimum of $85.00 labor rate for the gas station to inspect the truck. thats a minimum of $114.00 EVERY year

the registration fees in this state are $20.00 per every 1,000 pounds of registered weight. my 3500 dodge dually was registered at the GVWR plate rating of 12,000 lbs. thats $240.00 EVERY year. i dropped it to 10,000 lbs and saved $40.00

Lastly. if a scale house is open in Mass. legally your in a commercial vehicle, ( the sign says ALL commercial vehicles enter) granted it's your own personal vehicle. non the less. it's easier to roll over the scales and show them your new truck, as soon as you start talking to the trooper he will see your a MV buff and not in a commercial enterprise. at that point your on your way. they might not stop to chat with you, just wave you right on thru. remember he's human too. he puts his pants on just like you, one leg at a time. (of course some of them i wonder about)

Thank you for sharing your perspective. The regulatory environment in MA is difficult for this hobby on a good day.

Out of curiosity, do those rules apply to vehicles registered as RV's as well?

Many have 5 or more wheels on the ground, and many have air assist brakes.....

 

[bellyacre]

please excuse me. i can't figure how to quick reply

to Vintage Iron; Yes a Ryder truck rented to move your furniture or bring something home from the store requires a CDL, "IF" the GVWR on the vehicle is 26,001 lbs or more.

and yet if you see a 45 ft Motorhome towing a SUV in rush hour traffic driving down the break down lane they don't need a CDL. motor homes per the federal regs "49 cfr 383.3 say a motorhome is not required a CDL.

it's not right, but it is the law

 

[bellyacre]

GVWR ratings

I was checking the internet and found a spec sheet for the M35A2, and the M813A1 which might assist you with questions reqarding the dreaded CDL question.

Clark International out of Poca WV. has a spec sheet showing the empty and loaded weight of the vehicles.

M35A2 empty weight 13,007 lbs loaded weight 22,928 lbs. NO CDL required.

M813A1 empty weight 20,261 lss loaded weight 40,661 lbs. CDL required.

this is only a spec sheet and not necessarily the actual GVWR sticker attached to the vehicle. but this should give you a good idea.

in massachusetts there are so many different departments that do not talk to each other, hence the large degree of misinformation, or lack of info

 

[jaymcb]

please excuse me. i can't figure how to quick reply

to Vintage Iron; Yes a Ryder truck rented to move your furniture or bring something home from the store requires a CDL, "IF" the GVWR on the vehicle is 26,001 lbs or more.

and yet if you see a 45 ft Motorhome towing a SUV in rush hour traffic driving down the break down lane they don't need a CDL. motor homes per the federal regs "49 cfr 383.3 say a motorhome is not required a CDL.

it's not right, but it is the law

this is why my m109 shop van is registered as an RV, and why I bought the 109 instead of an M35 with a standard bed. That, and the shop van body is very cool looking

The RV lobby has seen fit to make sure registration costs are far lower as well.....even for a vehicle which tipped 15,325 on a truck scale in the GL lot when I drove it out - with 2 extra mounted tires and wheels and me in the driver's seat as freight in it.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

great taxachusetts. i had my 5 ton reg comm.for 6 yrs because i plowed with it. paid $560.00 a yr for the plates, and $1300.00 for ins. just changed it to antique plates in nov., and now pay $210.00 a year for ins. and $64.00 for plates. the only thing you cannot do with it is use it for DAILY commuting.

 

[AnonymousOne]

great taxachusetts. i had my 5 ton reg comm.for 6 yrs because i plowed with it. paid $560.00 a yr for the plates, and $1300.00 for ins.

Beastmaster - who did you use for the 5 ton reg comm insurance in MA ?


I am trying to buy 5 ton insurance for a newer ( 1988 ) Military vehicle which doesn't qualify as antique.

 

[Lordsandy]

Kalish', I don't remember if I mentioned this to you or not, but when I spoke to my ins. co. about antique plates, they said no go because the deuce is too heavy. And the $1200 I mentioned is with the GVW amended to 1500# with the registry. If I went full GVW with the deuce I don't know where the fees would end. I also have a CDL and now I have a commercial truck, so I feel that I can do what I want and not be restricted to garaging and fair weather use, although I believe that I am required to stop at all active weigh stations. The only options that I could find in MA was commercial or camper with all the required gear to prove it, the trucks are just way to heavy for our weak state. Oh well, the price you pay to play, it will bleed you dry.

Any of you Cape Cod guys doing the 4th parade in Hyannis or other local areas? I might try to show up early to jump into Hyannis'.

Hi guys.
Any advice on registering-insuring a Halftrack in MA?
I live in Plymouth and really only interested in driving down and being in a parade or two next year. She weighs 10 ton.
Thanks for any and all help in advance!
Jim

 

[treeguy]

So the saga continues; I'm trying to register and insure a bobbed deuce. I reeeeeeeeeelly want this thing to end up with a passanger registration so I can transfer the plates from a previous pass. vehicle. I'm really urging this option for a couple of reasons. First is the new rate of $300 per year for registration renewal I have on my full sized deuce, second is the increased cost of commercial insurance, and most concerning is the trailer issue. I don't have any other vehicle registered or insured so all my trailers will incur extra fees to be attached to my commercial insurance/registration. I don't par-take in any commercial related activities with my vehicles but also want the freedom to drive my trucks when ever and where ever I want. And oh yea, I also don't want to be limited on where I have to park. Can I get fries with that???? Seriously, is this all too much to ask?

The bobbed truck will only have four wheels which are the 9:00's and, though I haven't weighed it yet, I am estimating it's curb weight at 9,000#s. The bed is just a shortened duece bed and the cab is covered with a soft top. I gave a picture to my insurance "girl" and she immediatly said................


wait for it................................





COMMERCIAL!!!!!

Well isn't that just what I wanted to hear! Aside from the air assist brake system, I figure it as just a larger scale pick-up. There are many other pick-ups out there that are over 10,000#s. I'm thinking of calling Commerce to hear their shpiel. Does anyone have any suggestions? Again, I want to be able to just transfer my existing pass. plates to it.

I'd like to thank Bellyacre for sharing some of the technicalities here. So according to his info, this means that deuce owners are required to have a CDL license. Did I interperate his facts correctly?

 

[Vintage iron]

In my original post I warn, about giving to much info. I am not saying to lie! most insurance companies want to fit everything into groups. Our trucks don't fit! I had a A-hole look up a picture online of my truck. OH that is Commercial! Just give them the facts. Maybe you should say " you own a 1970 jeep that weighs 9000 lbs" and has hydraulic brakes. The air part is unimportant! there are plenty of air over hydraulic brakes that are NON CDL. I know I work on them.

 

[JohnAC]

So the saga continues; I'm trying to register and insure a bobbed deuce. I reeeeeeeeeelly want this thing to end up with a passanger registration so I can transfer the plates from a previous pass. vehicle. I'm really urging this option for a couple of reasons. First is the new rate of $300 per year for registration renewal I have on my full sized deuce, second is the increased cost of commercial insurance, and most concerning is the trailer issue. I don't have any other vehicle registered or insured so all my trailers will incur extra fees to be attached to my commercial insurance/registration. I don't par-take in any commercial related activities with my vehicles but also want the freedom to drive my trucks when ever and where ever I want. And oh yea, I also don't want to be limited on where I have to park. Can I get fries with that???? Seriously, is this all too much to ask?

The bobbed truck will only have four wheels which are the 9:00's and, though I haven't weighed it yet, I am estimating it's curb weight at 9,000#s. The bed is just a shortened duece bed and the cab is covered with a soft top. I gave a picture to my insurance "girl" and she immediatly said................


wait for it................................





COMMERCIAL!!!!!

Well isn't that just what I wanted to hear! Aside from the air assist brake system, I figure it as just a larger scale pick-up. There are many other pick-ups out there that are over 10,000#s. I'm thinking of calling Commerce to hear their shpiel. Does anyone have any suggestions? Again, I want to be able to just transfer my existing pass. plates to it.

I'd like to thank Bellyacre for sharing some of the technicalities here. So according to his info, this means that deuce owners are required to have a CDL license. Did I interperate his facts correctly?

Ok, I'm in the same boat as you in that I will own a bobbed Deuce sooner or later. I am in Mass. I called my insurance co and they had no idea what the vehicle was, so I said it's a 4 wheel drive truck under 26,000 GVW and they thought I would be good to go on regular plates or antiques depending on how much I wanted to drive it, and that it was not going to be used for commercial purposes.

This thread has given me some doubts however - If it ends up needing commercial plates, that may be a deal breeaker.

 

[JohnAC]

Ok, found this...

540 CMR 4.02: Special Definitions ​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

(24)​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT]Commercial Motor Vehicle [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]shall mean any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, or school pupil transport vehicle. A commercial motor vehicle shall include the following vehicles: ​

(a) The vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds; or
(b) The vehicle is designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver; or
(c) The vehicle is used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding in accordance with the Hazardous Materials Regulations of the United States Department of Transportation. Any commercial motor vehicle that singularly has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,001 pounds or less and is designed to meet emissions standards, shall be submitted for an emissions inspection in addition to all applicable safety inspection requirements; or
(d) A single, full or semi-trailer, used in commerce, with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating over 3,000 lbs; or

(e) Any vehicle which has a vehicle weight, or curb weight, of more than six thousand pounds, as per the manufacturer's description of said vehicle, unless such vehicle is a sport utility vehicle or passenger van, or a pickup truck or cargo van meeting the definition of private passenger vehicle; or​

(f) Any vehicle which has five or more wheels on the ground.


So right there in the first sentence, these definitions are not applicable to passenger motor vehicles. So if you register the vehicle in MA on passenger plates, the rest can go pound sand as it's not a commercial vehicle and can not be used for commercial purposes. I would assume all bets are off if the GVW is over 26,000 pounds as now you are bound by the federal laws.

This jives with what my insurance co said. Of course I could be wrong on the whole thing too.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[dependable]

Do the you have to get a 'vehicle alteration label' by your VIN plate for bobbed Deuces? I know you have to get one if you want to change GVW rating on a regular truck.

 

[Gman021]

I read all of this and still don't know what is what.

A deuce and a half weighs under 26,000 pounds. Wouldn't it be OK for regular passenger plates?

 

[dependable]

No, "has five or more wheels on ground." Anything over 6,000 gvw is commercial in MA with ecxeption of rvs, and I think there is a provision for pickups that are not in commerce, up to 10,000 gvw. After 10k gvw you are into commercial vehicle definition by federal standards as well. Don't know about special plates, all my trucks are registered commercial and I use them that way, but I know they will not let you register it as a car. On the bright side, if you register commercial and use them for work, you can legitimately write them and their expenses off on your tax return.

 

[Gman021]

Just one quick question. I go to school in CT and may get my license here (no good reason to keep an MA license except it's linked to my gun permit) and could register the vehicle here.

When I come home in the summer, I should be able to drive it MA just fine, right?

 

[Suprman]

I am in CT and am looking at buying a M923 truck. I would definitely want to reg it as an rv here. I have read the laws up and down. CT statutes state "10) "Camper" means any motor vehicle designed or permanently altered in such a way as to provide temporary living quarters for travel, camping or recreational purposes". Sounds like a 5-ton with a cargo cover would provide temporary living quarters for camping. I have it all printed out and I cannot find anything anywhere else that conflicts with it. In CT there is no law specifying a cdl for air brakes either. If it is not commercial use then it does not fall under commercial statutes. If you are in mass maybe you can get a CT po box and reg it to there. If anyone has any CT dmv experience I would be very interested in hearing it.
Will