Max pintle load on 923

[RobertoGatos]

Why is it so underrated? I regularly see 5tons flat towing other 939 trucks. Is there any documentation that approves a 5ton to tow more than 15K off the pintle? Have a bigger trailer I'd like to move but am worried about the liability.

 

[Mike929]

Not sure what it is rated at, but I know my 2500 gmc trucks hitch is rated at 14,000 lbs and my 5 ton trucks hitch makes it look like a little toy.

 

[Csm Davis]

Why is it so underrated? I regularly see 5tons flat towing other 939 trucks. Is there any documentation that approves a 5ton to tow more than 15K off the pintle? Have a bigger trailer I'd like to move but am worried about the liability.

I think the pintle is a 25 ton pintle where are you finding the 15k?

 

[Flyingvan911]

The military under rates things on purpose knowing that people will over load them, whether it's accidental or on purpose.

 

[RobertoGatos]

Ah, found this! Had not seen the highway ratings anywhere else before. 30k sounds much better.

 

[RobertoGatos]

I think the pintle is a 25 ton pintle where are you finding the 15k?

Data plate on all the trucks, and the operators manual.

 

[fasttruck]

If you are towing a truck on a drawbar or a full trailer the weight bearing on the pintle will be minimal. the ammount of weight you can tow will be governed by the efficiency of the brakes on the tow and how much ballast is holding the rear end of the draw vehicle down so the tow does not cause it to break traction. Towed a M 820 van with a bobtail M818 once for about fifty miles and made it safely in but only by exercising the most extreme caution. A wrecker would have been better for this but none available. Weioghts on the chart displayed (32000#) are for fifth wheel tractors where some of the weight is bourne by the tractor.

 

[73m819]

If you are towing a truck on a drawbar or a full trailer the weight bearing on the pintle will be minimal. the ammount of weight you can tow will be governed by the efficiency of the brakes on the tow and how much ballast is holding the rear end of the draw vehicle down so the tow does not cause it to break traction. Towed a M 820 van with a bobtail M818 once for about fifty miles and made it safely in but only by exercising the most extreme caution. A wrecker would have been better for this but none available. Weioghts on the chart displayed (32000#) are for fifth wheel tractors where some of the weight is bourne by the tractor.

WRONG, tm9-2320-272-10 states, "towed load" this is OFF the pintle is 15,000 lbs.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I'm just going to say this, because I want no part of a technical pissing contest here...

The 2.5 ton truck (m35a2) is rated for 2.5 tons, payload, or towing offroad. On road it is rated at double that exactly,until you get to the C model trucks, which they down rated for some reason.

Following that logic, the 5 ton truck should be, and is rated to tow or haul 5 tons off road, and ten tons on road.
Ten tons is 20,000 pounds, which is well below the rating of that pintle.

Have fun with the discussion from here. That's all I wanted to point out.

 

[Csm Davis]

Thanks RobertoGatos, 30,000 lbs listed in the chart will cover our butts in court but guy's and gals please remember that number is with brakes on the towed load and should include tongue weight if you pull something heavier than your truck.
Pull safely and have fun!

 

[doghead]

The pintle hitch, is rated for 90000 lbs, iirc. This was posted in the past.

 

[74M35A2]

Whatever the most recently printed spec of your specific vehicle is.

 

[Castle Bravo]

Ah, found this! Had not seen the highway ratings anywhere else before. 30k sounds much better.

View attachment 595538

I'm not sure how this plays into it, but that is probably a very early version of the 939 272-10. It mentions the probably unproduced M924 and M926, and doesn't mention any A1 variants. I've noticed that the early M939 documents seem to follow the "double highway rating" of the older trucks, but the later stuff does not.

There is probably no real reason that a M939 should be rated for less capacity/towing than a M809 truck.

 

[73m819]

This is VERY simple to answer without a lot of "I think"

If you want to be covered in case something happens, then do NOT go over what the TM rateing, if you CAN NOT find it in print, do not guess or think that it will be fine. We all know that a lot more can and have been loaded on, but that is at the drivers risk. If there is nothing in print for 30,000 for a 939a1/a1, then you are stuck at 15,000 to be covered. The military tells you can tow a 5t with another 5t, that WILL put you over the 15000 and even 30000 in some cases, BUT and I mean a big BUT, that is the military, NOT in the civi world where printed ratings is the law of the land. Unless you can show with a lot of design data that the printed rating is wrong, the printed ratings stand.

 

[Csm Davis]

I don't know for sure but I think I have gone past the rated capacity.

 

[ghitch75]

I don't know for sure but I think I have gone past the rated capacity.

just a little

 

[Mike929]

What?

You mean 200,000 w/ 18000 on the 5th wheel exceeds rating on the 931?

 

[Robo McDuff]

That is why I made my M51A2 (now doubling as M52A2) fully road legal in the Netherlands as opposed to messing around under Czech veteran papers. The question is not what I can get away with or what is possible, but what is legal and covered by insurance.

The pintle is not accepted in Europe for ANY vehicle except military. All civil have to have automated fish-mouth couplings.

When I came with my truck to the DoT, the asked for the company specifications of the original pintle and of the frame. I told them the company did not exist anymore and showed them the original documentation (dash tags and TMs). The Dutch DoT then had a good look at the frame and at the motor specification, and on that based my max allowances. In this case, they said that the motor power (max torque and HP) were more limiting than either the old pintle, the frame dimensions, or the new fish-mouth. For my truck, the final conclusion was that with the new civic coupling, I can pull 69 000 lbs with an M51A2 (provided the gross train weight does not go over 90 000 LBS)

I have that black on white as a Europe-wide certificate stating.

Don't worry, I will never do that but the point is, legally and according the insurance I can do so if I want.

As others said, if you want to do it, do it good. Get a statement from a company certified by the DoT or by the DoT itself re-certifying the max towing load under normal road conditions. Under no condition, go over what you have on your papers; the fines and liability will definitely not only top the re-certifying costs, but possibly the entire worth of the truck.

CMS Davis, impressive! Probably a wee bit over the max height as well. This was on a public road?

 

[Csm Davis]

CMS Davis, impressive! Probably a wee bit over the max height as well. This was on a public road?

Thanks, yeah well over any regulation you want to list, and no it was on private property kinda, definitely not public road.

 

[RobertoGatos]

Great picture

I don't know for sure but I think I have gone past the rated capacity.