MEP-002A Cranks but won't start

[MH60Guy]

I have an MEP-002A I purchased from a friend a little over a year ago. It fired right up when I bought it from him. I brought it home and it sat for a few months before I tried to start it again. I replaced the filters about a month ago. I have been trying to start it every weekend with the same results. Cranks with no fire. I have rebuilt the IP, tested the Glow Plugs, tested the fuel shut-off solenoid (with the exception of testing the amps because I couldn't figure out how they were wanting the wires hooked up), checked the Injectors, and let them soak for a couple of days in fuel. When I pull the Injectors out, they are dry as a bone. When I switch it to Prime, I loosen the screw on top on the Injector to bleed it. It always takes it a few seconds to get fuel to it, then I close it off, heat the Glow Plugs, then switch to start. Everything I have done so far has been done per the manual. I think there may still be air in the fuel system, but not sure. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Ray70]

So I assume you aren't getting any smoke or anything correct?
Do you have the throttle cable pulled out to the normal run position as it was back when it was working?
Have you checked visually to see that the throttle linkage at the pump goes to the full UP position when you crank it and the solenoid pulls in?
Sometimes the linkage will rub against the hole in the sheet metal cover, if you moved it when you took the pump off to rebuild.
As for the rebuild, did you find anything damaged inside? Plunger guide, anything?
Have you cracked the lines down on the pump to see if you are getting any fuel out of it?
Also, loosening that cap screw on the injector and looking for fuel isn't really going to get any fuel into the high pressure lines that were drained when you disconnected the injectors and IP. you need to bleed them manually by cracking the lines and cranking the motor, but if you have been cranking this thing every weekend, I get the feeling you are more than just air bound.

 

[MH60Guy]

So I assume you aren't getting any smoke or anything correct?
Do you have the throttle cable pulled out to the normal run position as it was back when it was working?
Have you checked visually to see that the throttle linkage at the pump goes to the full UP position when you crank it and the solenoid pulls in?
Sometimes the linkage will rub against the hole in the sheet metal cover, if you moved it when you took the pump off to rebuild.
As for the rebuild, did you find anything damaged inside? Plunger guide, anything?
Have you cracked the lines down on the pump to see if you are getting any fuel out of it?
Also, loosening that cap screw on the injector and looking for fuel isn't really going to get any fuel into the high pressure lines that were drained when you disconnected the injectors and IP. you need to bleed them manually by cracking the lines and cranking the motor, but if you have been cranking this thing every weekend, I get the feeling you are more than just air bound.

You are correct, no smoke.

Throttle cable, yes.

I have checked the throttle linkage, but I will check that again. I know that the linkage on the IP is contacting the plunger on the solenoid when cranking.
Nothing damaged in the pump that I could see. Also, my pump does not have a plunger guide. My friend I bought it from did some research and apparently my pump is an old style pump. Pics attached.

I have cracked the lines and do get a little fuel from them, but I don't think I have tried bleeding from there while cranking. I will give that a try.

Also, I do believe I got the timing correct, but if you think that could be an issue, then I can re-check that.

 

[Ray70]

Yes, that is the older PSU pump which doesn't use a plunger guide. ( it uses a drive pin with no safety feature )
If you are getting a little fuel out of the pump you most likely have a working pump.
First try bleeding the lines up at the injectors, while cranking the motor.
If that doesn't at least get you some smoke, the next thing I would do is double check the pump timing. Check the alignment of the pointer / PC mark on the flywheel and make sure you are on the compression stroke of cyl. #1 and not 180* out of time.

 

[MH60Guy]

Yes, that is the older PSU pump which doesn't use a plunger guide. ( it uses a drive pin with no safety feature )
If you are getting a little fuel out of the pump you most likely have a working pump.
First try bleeding the lines up at the injectors, while cranking the motor.
If that doesn't at least get you some smoke, the next thing I would do is double check the pump timing. Check the alignment of the pointer / PC mark on the flywheel and make sure you are on the compression stroke of cyl. #1 and not 180* out of time.

Those will be my next steps. I will try to get to it tonight. I will post a follow up and let you know. Thank you very much for your help so far!

 

[MH60Guy]

S

 

[MH60Guy]

Yes, that is the older PSU pump which doesn't use a plunger guide. ( it uses a drive pin with no safety feature )
If you are getting a little fuel out of the pump you most likely have a working pump.
First try bleeding the lines up at the injectors, while cranking the motor.
If that doesn't at least get you some smoke, the next thing I would do is double check the pump timing. Check the alignment of the pointer / PC mark on the flywheel and make sure you are on the compression stroke of cyl. #1 and not 180* out of time.

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been busy trying to get my Jeep up and running, the holidays, and work have kept me busy. Just to give you a run down. I pulled all the pumps, disassembled, cleaned and inspected them. Removed all fuel lines, cleaned and inspected. Removed fuel tank, cleaned and inspected. Removed IP and re-timed just to verify. Drained all fuel, including filters, and added new. Tried to start it and same thing, no fire. Made sure I primed it good. Still injectors are bone dry when pulled. So, with that being said, a friend of mine has recently talked to you about inspecting/rebuilding my injectors. I think this is my next step so I would like to send them to you for you to inspect or rebuild for me, unless you can think of something else it could be. How do I make this happen?

 

[Ray70]

Sure, not problem.
Send me a PM and I will give you my address to ship them to.
I will check them out.

 

[Guyfang]

OK, the set ran, until you serviced it, and rebuilt the IP.

Ray wrote:
If you are getting a little fuel out of the pump you most likely have a working pump.
This is an important question. Take the injector lines off the IP. Crank it over. Are you getting fuel? If so, then I might buy off on injectors needing cleaning. But if there is no fuel coming out of the the IP, You need to find out why.

 

[Ray70]

Although it's a little late now , but did you ever get to try bleeding the injectors by cracking the injector lines and cranking the engine?
This would have also answered Guy's question above as well.

Still no harm if you already pulled and sent the injectors since 9/10 times they at least need the pressure adjusted, even if they aren't stuck shut or leaking.
I assume you checked the pump timing using TDC, the PC mark on flywheel and a pin in the hole on the left side of the IP?

After you rechecked the timing, did you by any chance try the pump flow timing test? Reason I ask is that you would quite likely fail that test if the pump had a major issue or was timed wrong.

One last thought.... I recently had a customer who thought he had a bad IP and/or injectors and his entire issue turned out to simply be a stuck check valve in the fuel supply line ( straight fitting next to the elbow under the oil pressure gage )
What happens is with the machine off, fuel can drain backwards and return to the tank. this creates an air pocket in the IP.
You go to crank the machine and that air gets trapped in the pump and injector lines, causing slow or no start.
You may get close to getting it bled out, but then you stop because your batteries are getting weak....
As soon as you turn off the pumps, fuel flows backwards again, starting this endless cycle of air entrapment.
Just 1 more thing you should check!

 

[Guyfang]

Although it's a little late now , but did you ever get to try bleeding the injectors by cracking the injector lines and cranking the engine?
This would have also answered Guy's question above as well.

Still no harm if you already pulled and sent the injectors since 9/10 times they at least need the pressure adjusted, even if they aren't stuck shut or leaking.
I assume you checked the pump timing using TDC, the PC mark on flywheel and a pin in the hole on the left side of the IP?

After you rechecked the timing, did you by any chance try the pump flow timing test? Reason I ask is that you would quite likely fail that test if the pump had a major issue or was timed wrong.

One last thought.... I recently had a customer who thought he had a bad IP and/or injectors and his entire issue turned out to simply be a stuck check valve in the fuel supply line ( straight fitting next to the elbow under the oil pressure gage )
What happens is with the machine off, fuel can drain backwards and return to the tank. this creates an air pocket in the IP.
You go to crank the machine and that air gets trapped in the pump and injector lines, causing slow or no start.
You may get close to getting it bled out, but then you stop because your batteries are getting weak....
As soon as you turn off the pumps, fuel flows backwards again, starting this endless cycle of air entrapment.
Just 1 more thing you should check!

And this is why i tell people to FIX the check valve, instead of simply breaking the glass ball when the check valve is giving you problems. You might short term fix a problem, but long term, cause more. Just my two cents.

Open to read comment.

 

[Soupersnoop]

Sure, not problem.
Send me a PM and I will give you my address to ship them to.
I will check them out.

I was just reading this thread and I am having the same problem with an MEP 002A. I think i have gotten to the point that it has to be the injectors. Could take look at my injectors? Thank You Ben Bireley

 

[robertsears1]

If you are not getting any white smoke while cranking, try this. My 003 got balky all of a sudden with no white smoke and this was the solution in that case. See the picture and where the pen is pointing. You need to unlatch the cover to really see it. When the switch goes to crank, that round solenoid should pull up that rod (actually the ball joint on the bottom end) to allow the fuel to flow. I hit that area with lubricant since it was not moving smoothly and it cranked fine after that. Any time I don’t see white smoke on a 002/3 genset, check that the rod is getting pulled all the way up which moves a lever on the injector pump (IP).

 

[Ray70]

PM sent about looking at your injectors.
Before sending them, have you checked your IP or at least verified you are getting fuel to the injectors?
If the machine has been sitting a long time there is a good chance the plunger guide in the IP may be broken.
Give us the history on this machine and we'll guide you through repairing it.

 

[Guyfang]

Know the Injectors are bad. Do not guess.