MEP -002A Fuel Pump Needed, or not?

[Incredilion]

Fellows-
OK, so I'm getting ready to set the fuel system up on this puppy, and I'm going to use a Goldenrod filter, so it will take very little pressure to get fuel by the filter. I have a tank outside that I'll fill, a 275 gallon heating oil tank, and it's elevated, the bottom is maybe 3 or 4 feet off the ground.
Now, I know that the injector pump is what makes all the pressure to the injectors, and that the regular pump is just a delivery pump, getting the fuel TO the IP.

This being said, do you guys think I MIGHT be able to use gravity to get fuel to the IP & have it work ok, or do you think I MUST have a small pump in the line? I know they have a fuel pump on the actual generator setup, but they also have 3 fuel filters, too.

Thanks in advance-
Chris

 

[SCSG-G4]

Where are you going to route the fuel return line? Most folks simply use the "Prime and run, auxillary fuel" setting, which leaves the main tank, with all it's lines intact. The Aux pump only comes on when the main tank is down to 1/4 full, and runs till the tank is over 3/4 full, then cuts off. Lots easier than re-inventing the wheel.

 

[Triple Jim]

Actually, the auxiliary fuel pump is always running when in the "Prime and run, auxiliary fuel" position. It's the solenoid valve after the pump that opens and closes to send fuel to the built in tank when needed. Of course, when the solenoid valve is closed, the auxiliary fuel pump doesn't run very fast.

 

[rosco]

Your notion of the 002A fuel systems operation, is somewhat mixed. Facts: The MEP runs from fuel in its day tank. When the Aux fuel circuit is in operation, a float switch in the day tank, controls the Aux fuel pump, which simply keeps the day tank full. The MEP's fuel system is not broke, so its questionable, wether it needs fixing. To connect an auxillary fuel supply to the MEP, simply connect a hose to the Auxillary fuel port, where noted on the machine.

I suspect that if you do that, with your gravity tank, your machine's operation, will be fine. I don't know, how much pressuriezd fuel (be it by gravity, or otherwise), the auxillary fuel circuit will handle. Another fact: you gain .48 pounds pressure/foot of elevation, less line loss by friction. So by the time you get fuel to your MEP, via small hose, from your tank, you should be OK. But check your MEP's operation, before you need to depend on it.

 

[storeman]

IMO, gravity shouldn't even be a factor because the aux pump sucks fuel from the bulk source. If you have the fuel bung adapter, simply put it in the bung on top of your tank,. Plumb it with a pickup pipe to a few inches off the tank bottom and run hose from tank to aux. I replaced the fittings on the bung adapter with air tool quick disconnects and use an air hose to connect to quick disconnect fitting installed at the aux fuel pump. Easy to attach and detach. BTW, if you don't have the bung adapter, I may be able to help you.
Jerry

 

[Incredilion]

You guys, there's no "aux" setting for me, as I only have the engine, no tank, fuel pump, nada. I am just trying to find out if I can gravity feed the Injector pump, and return the return fuel right into the line itself. I think it can be done, I was just asking if any of you fellows have done it before? I THINK it can be done, as long as the filter doesn't restrict the flow too much.

Thanks again-
Chris

 

[SCSG-G4]

Sounds like you need the control box. Where are your instruments? Are these motors only or generators? Motor only is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

 

[Incredilion]

Sounds like you need the control box. Where are your instruments? Are these motors only or generators? Motor only is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

What "control box"? I don't need a control box, I can make an ignition myself, all I was asking about was the gravity feed, and if it'll work.

I think what you're asking about is the motor/generator. They are a motor only, and I have it completely dealt with, it's not another whole ball of wax. I've been using this for the last 2 years, works great. It is 90%+ efficient, and works perectly as either a motor OR a generator, for DC power.

 

[Incredilion]

Sounds like you need the control box. Where are your instruments? Are these motors only or generators? Motor only is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

As to "what are your instruments", are you asking about electrical or mechanical, for the engine?
If electrical, 3 (sets) of shunts, a Magnum 4448PAE Inverter with a Remote, a Outback Solar FNDC coupled to a Right Hand Engineering Winverter software program that reads, my solar, wind, and grid/generator charging in either KW or amps.

My house is on (2) battery sets, (A) and (B). One at a time, I am oon (A) right now. I charge using a 7.2 KW solar array that I installed, and a Jacobs WIndmill that I rebuilt and installed on a 50 foot tower. Past that, I use a Lister 16/1 engine that I found burned up in Montana & rebuilt to new; initially using a 12KW 240VAC ST generator that I had gone through by an old Westinghouse shop near me in Spokane, WA. Now, I am using the MARS motor for charging AND starting, I use the motor itself to start the engine via belt drive, on a solenoid, and then once it's running, it turn the same motor into a gnerator, making about 125 amps at 48+ volts DC.

I know what I'm doing with this, glad to fill you in, but like I was saying, this was all about the gravity feeding of fuel to the engine.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Speddmon]

Maybe you should have explained some of that in your original post, because your thread title leads people to believe you are dealing with an entirely intact generator. The responses you got were in thinking you had a complete generator. It seems to me (and I hope I'm wrong) that you were getting a bit snippy in your replies because you were getting extra, un-needed information.

They are a motor only, and I have it completely dealt with, it's not another whole ball of wax. I've been using this for the last 2 years, works great. It is 90%+ efficient, and works perectly as either a motor OR a generator, for DC power.

That sentence for example tells me that you don't need our advice because you "have it completely dealt with".


Now, that we know you only need to be able to run the motor, if you size the line from your large tank to the IP big enough as to not restrict the flow, what you have in mind should work just fine.

 

[Incredilion]

You know what; you're right. I just assumed (wrongly) that others had read the post that I put up yesterday saying that I am working on an engine only, so it was pretty simple. I was in the wrong, apologies to all.
I was getting snippy, I didn't understand at all why I was asking about gravity feeding fuel & getting responses about instrumentation? Now I get it. It is MY FAULT. I do know what I'm doing with this, electrically, can do, I just didn't know if anyone knew if the IP on that engine is looking for a certain (low) presure or not.

Thank you for the info, Speddmon. I also think it'll do ok, will be working on the mounts for it tomorrow afternoon, maybe even in the morning.
Chris

 

[1800 Diesel]

I would not recommend that you route the return line from the IP back into the supply line--for two reasons as follows:

1. The return pressure of the IP may exceed the gravity pressure from your tank. This may cause fuel feed problems and if any debris happens to exit the IP, instead of returning said debris back to your bulk tank, it would go right back into the IP--(that's assuming you would make the tee connection upstream from the secondary filter and the check valve).

2. One of the primary functions of the return fuel circuit on a diesel engine is to carry heat away from the IP & the injectors. By not returning the hot fuel back to your storage tank (a great big heat sink), your injectors and IP will suffer from excessive heat, closing operating clearances and within short order seizure of either IP or injectors or both. This heat removal is even more critical on these air-cooled engines.

 

[Incredilion]

1800, first, thanks very much.
I was looking at the return and it actually comes right into the top of the injector pump, with a "T" so you can hook a line/hose to it. I wonder how much return fuel there actually is, is it a constant flow or just a slow drip? Do you know, maybe?

I'll make sure that the hot fuel doesn't get back to the engine feed line, for sure, what you said makes sense.
Chris

 

[wheatfield83]

I think you need a pump to create fuel flow thru the IP return to cool the IP.

 

[Keith_J]

The injection pump NEEDS constant flow to cool and to keep prime. If you dead end the injection pump at the end of a pressurized line, there is no means to prime the system. With return to day tank, any air will be purged.

Run pumps as designed and a return fuel line to the storage tank. But be aware the set's fuel tank also functions as a settling tank. So do not draw from the bottom of your storage tank.

 

[Incredilion]

The injection pump NEEDS constant flow to cool and to keep prime. If you dead end the injection pump at the end of a pressurized line, there is no means to prime the system. With return to day tank, any air will be purged.

Run pumps as designed and a return fuel line to the storage tank. But be aware the set's fuel tank also functions as a settling tank. So do not draw from the bottom of your storage tank.

OK, here's what I think I'll do, and thank you for your knowledge on the subject, appreciated.
I bought a 600 gallon tank yesterday, and it's on a stand the better part of 6 feet off the ground, and it will gravity feed the engine. The return line will go to my other generator's (a Lister 16/1) small tank, a 4 gallon tank.That will keep it cool, and I'll just burn it in the Lister. Thats' why I was asking if anyone knows how much fuel gets returned on it, I'll just have to see.....

Keith J, thanks a lot for that info, makes all kinds of sense to me.

 

[storeman]

It is so simple to pipe back to the source using 1/4" tubing/hose strapped to your incoming feed. Why make it so complicated? Sounds to me like your Lister will overflow, perhaps even if you are running them simultaneously.
Jerry

 

[Incredilion]

It is so simple to pipe back to the source using 1/4" tubing/hose strapped to your incoming feed. Why make it so complicated? Sounds to me like your Lister will overflow, perhaps even if you are running them simultaneously.
Jerry

The source is 25 feet away, the Lister is 3 feet away. I won't be running them simultaneously, and I don't think the return is returning that mush fuel, I could be wrong. The seondary issue is the pressurization & height/elevation. My tank (source) has a top that's at least 12 feet high, and I'm trying to NOT use a pump.


I'll let you guys know if it works, what I really want to se more than anything is what the rtae of return is.

Chris

 

[storeman]

Good luck.

 

[edgephoto]

Well the facet pump 480517E flows 33 gph. At full load the MEP-002a burns .5 gph. So you will be dealing with 32.5 gph of return fuel if you used a pump. Gravity feed you will of course have less fuel returning. Most likely your idea won't work. Good luck.