MEP-003 vs MEP-004 House backup power

[Corvette1974]

Alright I understand, I wasnt sure about how the mod affects the output potential. Good point on the "assumptions about the tendency of the military to under rate design", that is what I am talking about with not wanting to damage or decrease the service life of my 003 by running it at 110% for extended times. Can it handle it - probably, Was it designed to handle it - If we assume that is the military's intent.

So basically the 004 could work for maybe 1-2 more kw over the 003, but even then it would be in the "out of design parameters" range.

Here's a question - What is the reason for these generators being designed to not easily be able to convert between 1 and 3 phase like the 003?

 

[Corvette1974]

Hahaha trust me I'm right there with you......I dont personally need anything special to live, and if it were a real situation, you're right there would be no A/C. But it's always good to have some "reserve capability". It's kinda like underpowered cars can be dangerous, whereas you can never have too much power!

And for all the stuff I'd want to do it would be over time. We got the generator over the summer, I got it running soon after, but it wasnt until DURING sandy that we got it hard wired to the house hahaha. So it all takes time. Sadly my family's house is all electric, so that is where the "need" for so much power comes from. Other than those loads we could run the whole house on the 015! And we dont just run it to run it, the reason why it is always at load is because we are using the stuff to shower, heat, and cook. Not all may be needed but you might as well use it if you got it.

So basically from what you guys are saying the 004 is pointless unless you have some weird everything is 3 phase huge house that everything is also all electric.....which doesnt apply to me!

 

[rickf]

The one main thing you need to consider is price over time. Yes, green stuff is fun...............................and noisy, thirsty, hard and expensive to find parts for. If you need something long term, and it sounds like you do, then a permanent standby running on natural gas is the way to go. I am assuming you have gas, if not then propane. These sets do not need fuel stabilizers, the fuel supply on natural gas is endless, well almost. If it ends then you probably are not worrying about the generator. They do not wet stack. Parts are readily available. The price is not that much more than getting all set up with what you are planning. Not trying to talk you out of it, just giving you some options to consider. Your insurance may give you a break with a modern gen-set but I doubt they would even consider it with an antique, especially a modified one.

Rick

 

[Corvette1974]

Nope no gas supply of any kind, heating oil could be used in a pinch though. I refuse to buy a civvy generator they are garbage. And you're right OD stuff may not be the most "efficient" but I didnt buy it for that. I wouldnt have gotten my M1028 if I wanted efficiency. I'm buying a deuce this summer. I buy OD stuff because it is the toughest, it is America, and I enjoy working on it and using pieces of American military history.

My dad *wants* to buy more military generators and stuff, anything military we can buy we will. Because it is the best of the best. The 003 has stunned everyone that has seen it, from my dad and I who were hooked the moment we discovered the MEP's, to the electrician who loved the sheer badassness of it.

I'm not trying to be like a stubborn a$$ over this or trying to argue, if im coming off like that I apologize!

 

[Corvette1974]

And for price over time I spent 900 on the generator, maybe 100 on fluids and filter, maybe 200 on fuel for sandy. My friend with a 5500 generac spent I think like 800 on the generator and MUCH more on gasoline and couldnt power the whole house, so for price over time, I'm ahead of the game from that persepctive

The 003 is truly a great machine, and I got a killer deal on GL for it.

Will

 

[rickf]

Once you get up in the standby gen-set range they are just about all American made and they are all high quality. Do not believe that EVERYTHING that the military has is either high quality NOR American made. Once you get into the 70's era and above they were into budget cuts and low bid prevailed. Look at the CUCV and M880 trucks. Exact same thing as civilian. Look at the repower on the smaller generators, Hatz diesels. The M151 was no wonder vehicle either, I have a couple and am very well versed on them. The Hummer is another problem child that had lots of issues even before they up-armored them. I love military stuff, ask anyone who has seen my place, but do not believe it is all that much better than anything else. Now if you are going the route like Storeman did you will have no worries at all, "Well that one died, just fire up another".

 

[Isaac-1]

These are just my personal thoughts, but I would have no concern about running a MEP-003a at 110% rated capacity for any foreseeable standby duty duration, and would have little concern regularly hitting 120% load and I am one that tends to be very conservative on such topics. The reason is these sets are designed to operate at rated load in harsh conditions, most good commercial standby generators (not the consumer junk) are rated at up to 500 hours per year of use with rated output at 86 degrees F, and a 1% derate for every degree F above that. By comparison the MEP generators are rated for sustained output 24x7xthe service life of the unit at 120 degrees F. While it is true that there are multiple factors at work here, just that 34 degree difference in rated operating environment should account for at least an extra 10-20% capacity in typical real world operating environments.

 

[storeman]

Sounds like you are focused.
Jerry

 

[Corvette1974]

Hahaha just have a warehouse of MEP's! That would be great....

I know what you are saying though about the quality. I'm big on military history and research every day about any random thing I can think of. And I read SS every day.

You're right about the real standby generators they are VERY nice....but also very expensive. We were originally going to look into one of those when we dsicovered the magic of the MEP. So for a total investment of about $1000 you get a beast of a generator that is bulletproof. I'd say were better off.

One key of the military things is they have character that other things dont have, that's something you cant find in many civilian things.

Although I would beg to differ, I think my M1028 is a BEAST! Maybe not M35 militaryness but I've never seen a civilian truck (yeah yeah I know it is basically a K30) even come close to the presence and sheer oomph that the '28 has. New or old, there is a certain quality that the CUCV has that just makes it better than the rest. It has done some pretty incredible feats if I do say so myself

Will

 

[Corvette1974]

You got it on the duty cycles and use of the generator. These are beasts and I'm sure it can handle it. I just wanted to confirm so we dont get stranded if it were to take a dump on us (which is entirely possible at any time regardless!)

Will

 

[kurtkds]

I had converted a mep 113 to a mep 004 last year and was running 28kw peak.

See here for more information.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-sets-able-to-do-60hz/page7&highlight=kurtkds

 

[Corvette1974]

Wow is all I have to say. That is some excellent engineering right there! That is an awesome project you undertook and completed, that thing is a beast.

Will

 

[edgephoto]

You have an all electric house? Heat too? Or just appliances and water heater?

I have all electric appliances and water heater. Oil for heat. I do have city water so no well. I have a Generac 7500W unit I bought last year. Put 80 hours on it after the October snow storm. I decided to buy a more sturdy standby by generator to use as my primary generator. I will keep the petrol Generac for backup and short outages. The MEP units are especially robust. I think you will be fine with the 003 unit. I would just switch on the water heater when you need hot water. A standard 50-80 gallon electric resistance water heater will heat up in less than one hour.

One of the best investments I made to my home last December was replacing my electric water heater with a GE hybrid model. Uses a heat pump to heat the water with resistance elements as back up. My electric bill dropped by $100 per month. That savings on the bill and the rebate from my electric company has paid for the unit in just 7 months. We have not noticed any difference in the hot water supply. Three of us in the house with one teenage son who takes the 25 minute showers. This water heater in heat pump mode uses very little power and will make a tank of water in an hour or so.

One other thought is you could use two 003 units. Put in 2 transfer switches and split the loads on the two panels. Then you can have redundancy plus increase your power.

I am not much for inconvenience or roughing it. So I can sympathize with you desire for 100% ability to run your house normally. I have compromised to the point that I just worry about the real big loads like electric dryer, range and water heater. My wife and son know to ask before attempting to use either of them. Otherwise business as usual with 7500W civvy model. I am expecting the 002 will do the same and hopefully better.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Nope no gas supply of any kind,

That's what propane tanks are for. It's not complicated.

I refuse to buy a civvy generator they are garbage.

Some are. Some aren't. Depends what you buy.

Gas 10 horse jobs from the box store? Yeah, that's garbage. It won't last long. I got one cheap from GL, and it will have to do until I can afford better.

Diesel or LP/propane generators built for serious commercial use? Nope. Not cheap, and not garbage.

And you're right OD stuff may not be the most "efficient" but I didnt buy it for that. I wouldnt have gotten my M1028 if I wanted efficiency. I'm buying a deuce this summer. I buy OD stuff because it is the toughest, it is America, and I enjoy working on it and using pieces of American military history.

My dad *wants* to buy more military generators and stuff, anything military we can buy we will. Because it is the best of the best. The 003 has stunned everyone that has seen it, from my dad and I who were hooked the moment we discovered the MEP's, to the electrician who loved the sheer badassness of it.

Fine, if that's what floats your boat. Just be realistic about your needs and the unit's capabilities and limitations, and you'll have a grand old time.

 

[leedawg]

Sounds to me like you want a MEP-004 so you can play with it... And you want to run your whole house off of it.

So I think you have answered your own question just buy one dump some money into it and run your whole house off of it.

I have a mep-003 it handles the house fine and one of my two wells. Power goes out maybe twice a year where I live for maybe 24 hours at most. I too was tired of prioritizing loads or shutting the house off to run both wells and pressure pumps for irrigation of the vineyards. So I bought a MEP 005. Runs great puts out plenty of power and now with everything on I can load it up to bout 75% of its capacity.

However I will say this if the SHTF out here in California the MEP-005 would be my last resort for power. Id be hunkered down in the house with my little Honda EU2000i. It sips down .27 gallons per hour at full load. More than enough power to keep some lights on and run the microwave oven.

If I needed the whole house powered id run the 003.

The 005 is no economical machine. I think its sucking down around 2.5 to 3 GPH. For my purposes I dont care I need it for back up power primarily for irrigation during the summer and at most im running it for 2 days out of the entire year the rest of the time honestly is to just play with it make sure it still starts up if I need it, I put more fuel through it playing with it and working on it then I have actually in a power outage situation. Its also nice to drive the 5 ton ac at the house as well as the AC units in the barn but for sure not a necessity.

So it sounds like you just want to run everything and have another toy to play with. I say stop over thinking it just buy it and go have fun. We could sit here all day discussing how smart or bad an idea it is. But if the Fit hits the Sham sounds like you have more than enough other more economical toys that you can pair your life style down with and get by for extended amount of time.

As MarcusOReallyus said "Go have a Grand Old Time"

opcorn:

 

[Corvette1974]

Alrighty....not all electric. We have oil heat, and yes we have propane tanks for the grill - we use that too. I realize there are nice civilian units, but for the same price as an MEP, like you said "not cheap, not garbage" For what we got with the MEP, I'd say it was a very good deal.

I'm fully aware of the limitations of the unit, my whole point was I wanted to make sure I was still within those limits, and not doing damage that will shorten its life span. Hahaha I probably sound like some MEP fanatic or something.

And holy cow! 75% load on an MEP-005 is an impressive feat! And you're right if it did all go to ****, we wouldnt be using the 003 as a primary, but I'd rather have the capability then not "You never need it till you need it"

Thanks for all of the input, I really do appreciate it all!

God Bless

Will

 

[Ratch]

I admit I didn't read all pages of this thread, but I ran my house on a MEP-002a during and after Sandy, and with electric water heater and the well pump, I never got it over 95% load. But, we managed the loading a bit, like never running the stove and oven while the water heater was on, etc. I have 3 kids that live on electricity... But being on Gennie power is a great time to take a break from video games and TV.
I've thought about the 004a by load calculations of my house, but I figure for the cost of fueling it, I'd rather just manage the load. I only used the 002 because it was all I had on hand when the power went out, and I was very surprised by how well it did with what I considered some pretty minor inconvenience. The fuel consumption was really amazing. I swear I used 20 gallons over 4 days (4 5-gallon cans). At that rate, I could run for a week off a 55-gallon drum. And every time I looked at the guage, it was under 10% load. All we really need are lights, the oil boiler (soon switching to coal and wood heat), 1 fridge and a freezer. Power garage door openers are nice, too...

I was actually so happy with it, I'm permanently installing an 002 in a shelter and wiring it to a switch, probably this weekend.

 

[Corvette1974]

Good stuff, that's awesome. Most of the time I was at like 40-50 percent load, only during high usage did we max it out. And the fuel consumption wasnt that bad. It was about $25 a day to run it for give or take 12 hours a day, varying load. That is better than $200 for a hotel or something crazy like that, so I figure it's a good deal.

I still need to do my shelter, but we have it permanantly installed on a base of stone and 4x4's and it keeps it very stable and it is also as perfectly level as we could get it. Not sure if that matters but I'm sure it doesnt hurt!

Will

 

[edgephoto]

Good stuff, that's awesome. Most of the time I was at like 40-50 percent load, only during high usage did we max it out. And the fuel consumption wasnt that bad. It was about $25 a day to run it for give or take 12 hours a day, varying load. That is better than $200 for a hotel or something crazy like that, so I figure it's a good deal.

I still need to do my shelter, but we have it permanantly installed on a base of stone and 4x4's and it keeps it very stable and it is also as perfectly level as we could get it. Not sure if that matters but I'm sure it doesnt hurt!

Will

I like toys like the next guy. Buy the MEP-004 if you want it. Most likely overkill but if you are ok with fuel consumption and have a way to load it up then why not?

 

[jbk]

ditto nothing wrong with mulitable sets i aquired my oo4 because of the price. got it for $750.00 somtimes the deals are on the bigger sets as we all know the 003 is very popular. .5 gph. more than the 003 and the sound is easier on the ear than the 003 to me.

I like toys like the next guy. Buy the MEP-004 if you want it. Most likely overkill but if you are ok with fuel consumption and have a way to load it up then why not?