Mep-003

[reybo]

Someone posted this a couple of years ago, and I'd like to learn more. This Square D seems to be what I need.

For what it may be worth, Square D makes a very inexpensive switch for their service panels that mounts in the upper breaker location of the panel and has a bracket the slides up into the location of the main breaker switch handle. This provides a code approved transfer switch right in your normal panel serving the normal breakers going to the house.

The way it works is this - you wire your genny into the 2 pole breaker in the upper right slot, and it stays disconnected from the busway in the panel unless you move the bracket which forces you to open the main breaker - then you can close the breaker to the genny. This makes connection of the genny to the grid impossible.

The great thing about this is you can select any of your normal loads to run on the genny! AND ITS CHEAP, SAFE and CODE LEGAL.

Since I plan to have the main breaker panel replaced, this seems a good choice. But what's the Square D model number for this in 200-amp service?

And an unrelated question: how long should we expect the power to be off for an installation of the Square D? My wife and I both need Oxygen at night and that requires power. Is there any chance at all we could have power reconnected the same day it's disconnected?

Appreciate the help.

Rey

 

[Harleyd315]

I have a similiar set up made by inter lok, try searching interlok kit .com my electric was never shut down for its install.

 

[Isaac-1]

You should be aware that while breaker interlock kits are allowed nationally by the NEC, they are not code legal in some / many individual jurisdictions. So you might want to ask your local inspector before buying.

Ike

 

[1800 Diesel]

I ran into this situation a little while ago at work about the amperage ratings of type SO power cord. You might be surprised to learn that to be up to snuff by the code amperage ratings of type SO cord you need to use a #4/4 cord for the full power rating of the MEP-003a......

Speddmon,

Can you please elaborate on the need for using a 4-conductor cable for your home backup, which I assume is single phase? I understand the wire size requirement to match amperage and I can also see where one can benefit with a 4-conductor cable if setting up, say an MEP004A in it's original 3-phase configuration to tap off each of the 3 phases individually to provide power for branch circuits (as Sewerzuk has for his home & shop).

I'm asking because I am in the process of acquiring cables/transfer switches, etc to install an MEP4004A (configured for single phase) as a home backup generator. My plan was to keep the distance between the house panel & the generator to less than 50' with a cable size of 6/3. So....just wanted to inquire as to your use of 4-conductor cable. Am I on the wrong track or am I missing something as to any benefits from using 4-conductor cable for a single phase installation? I haven't bought cable yet so I wanted to sort this out. Thanks for the advice!

 

[reybo]

You should be aware that while breaker interlock kits are allowed nationally by the NEC, they are not code legal in some / many individual jurisdictions. So you might want to ask your local inspector before buying.

Ike

Hey, Ike, Harley, appreciate the reply. Will check with the locals to see if the interloc kit is allowed.

The house has a fuse box from the 70s, not a breaker box, so I'll be replacing that with a 200 amp Square D breaker box. I assume the meter must be pulled for that, requiring coordination with the powco and maybe the inspector. Thus my concern with down time.

Rey

 

[storeman]

I have 400 amp service, as does my son. Having seen an interlock device, I designed and made two for me and 2 for him. Code legal or not, they are a good safety step. BTW: each unit must be cut to fit the box and it's design. I have GE and he has Square-D
Jerry

 

[johnray13]

Speddmon,

Can you please elaborate on the need for using a 4-conductor cable for your home backup, which I assume is single phase? I understand the wire size requirement to match amperage and I can also see where one can benefit with a 4-conductor cable if setting up, say an MEP004A in it's original 3-phase configuration to tap off each of the 3 phases individually to provide power for branch circuits (as Sewerzuk has for his home & shop).

I'm asking because I am in the process of acquiring cables/transfer switches, etc to install an MEP4004A (configured for single phase) as a home backup generator. My plan was to keep the distance between the house panel & the generator to less than 50' with a cable size of 6/3. So....just wanted to inquire as to your use of 4-conductor cable. Am I on the wrong track or am I missing something as to any benefits from using 4-conductor cable for a single phase installation? I haven't bought cable yet so I wanted to sort this out. Thanks for the advice!

SO cord counts the ground wire as a conductor. So 4/x SO cord would consist of these four wires: black, red, white and green.

 

[reybo]

Inspector here says the city uses the NEC w/o modification, so the interloc kit will be OK.

With the new breaker box, what are the odds I can get by with 200 amp service? Between the house and the small guest apartment, we have two 60-gal 240v HW heaters, a heat pump in winter, 5 ton A/C in summer, electric range, clothes dryer, dish washer, 1800 watt induction cooker, two countertop microwave ovens, two toasters, 4-year-old Samsung refrigerator-freezer not especially efficient, three 500-watt oxygen generators, and the usual lights/TVs/computers+monitors. Seeing it in one place, it looks like it could be more than 200 amp.

 

[Isaac-1]

To answer the second part of your question, regarding time to switch out breaker boxes, a lot will depend on your local utility, inspector and electricians. If the wiring is good, I would suspect the box change out would take somewhere between 2-5 hours depending of complexity and if wires need to be extended, etc. Around here the power company requires a separate service call for disconnect and for re-connect, reconnection may require approval of your inspector. We had an incident here where I work a few years ago needing a disconnect then were ready for a reconnect again 5 minutes later (burned wire going into main service entrance which had to be cut off stripped back 3-4 inches and reconnected), the dispatcher required that we call for the disconnect, and would not allow us to schedule the reconnect until after the disconnect was done. Thankfully he lineman has some sense, and saw it was going to be a 5 minute job, cut the line for the disconnect, and was already starting on the splices for the reconnect while the connection at the service entrance was repaired.

Ike

 

[Triple Jim]

.

 

[m16ty]

To answer the second part of your question, regarding time to switch out breaker boxes, a lot will depend on your local utility, inspector and electricians. If the wiring is good, I would suspect the box change out would take somewhere between 2-5 hours depending of complexity and if wires need to be extended, etc. Around here the power company requires a separate service call for disconnect and for re-connect, reconnection may require approval of your inspector. We had an incident here where I work a few years ago needing a disconnect then were ready for a reconnect again 5 minutes later (burned wire going into main service entrance which had to be cut off stripped back 3-4 inches and reconnected), the dispatcher required that we call for the disconnect, and would not allow us to schedule the reconnect until after the disconnect was done. Thankfully he lineman has some sense, and saw it was going to be a 5 minute job, cut the line for the disconnect, and was already starting on the splices for the reconnect while the connection at the service entrance was repaired.

Ike

Used to be around here that you could call the electric company and tell them you needed to cut power and they would tell you to go ahead and cut the seal, remove the meter, and put the meter back when you're done (they'd replace the seal at the next meter reading). I've got a pole and have even tripped the transformer before when needed with electric co. approval. Of course I know several electric co. employees and that may have helped.

Now lately they have started cracking down on "shade tree" jobs and don't really like for you to pull the meter yourself. Add that and these new smart meters that they can tell almost instantly if you pull a meter. Well what it will do is show a power outage to your residence and they will come to investigate.

 

[Isaac-1]

Note my above example was a business with pole top CT remote metering, so no meter base, just wires going straight into the main disconnect switch and the problem was the wires on the hot side of the disconnect switch.

 

[reybo]

Have a couple of licensed guys coming by this weekend to estimate the job. Because of the gen I have, my Craigslist ad began "Are you a mil veteran with MEP-003A experience? I have one on a trailer in ... "

Target advertising.

 

[reybo]

The MEP 003A started quickly and ran just fine for its half-hour test today after a half-minute of oil smokey exhaust. It hadn't run since February. I let it take on the biggest load, the heat pump with emergency heat. That's too big for this, according to the meter. Drew appreciably over 100% capacity. I've called back the electrician to hook up a few circuits he overlooked and to disconnect the heat pump. We'll rely on the oil furnace when we're off the grid.


The noise was less than expected. I anticipated worse. But then my hearing is shot. I anticipated a high, noisy wind from the cooling fan but it was just a breeze.


Do these have a throttle? Seems to be a one speed machine with an operator adjustment for herz. No obvious way for an operator to reduce or increase rpm, or need to.


The external 18' fuel supply scheme was a bust. No fuel was pumped. I'll have to test it piece by piece, starting with the fuel pump to make sure it's ok. It's designed to draw from a 55-gal drum to fill the on-board tank, about 4' vertical. For an 18' draw, it may require a second pump down at the fuel tank. Anyone know a quality 12v or 24v DC diesel pump?

 

[storeman]

It won't draw from aux fuel tank unless on-board tank is low on fuel. Then it will replenish the on-board tank and shut off aux until needed again to replenish. Drain the tank and try again.
Jerry

 

[Rapracing]

The HZ adjustment is the throttle. It increases/decreases RPM. 60hz equals 1800RPM. Push/Pull makes large adjustment in RPM and turning the knob is fine tune to 60hs - 1800RPM

 

[reybo]

It won't draw from aux fuel tank unless on-board tank is low on fuel. Then it will replenish the on-board tank and shut off aux until needed again to replenish. Drain the tank and try again.
Jerry

The gauge was reading below 1/4 tank. Is that enough to get the pump going? The underground fuel tank is 18' away, and half that distance is vertical lift, half at the start, half at the end. Seem to be asking too much of the 003A pump to draw that distance, so I'm looking for a helper pump. Fitting something like a Parker submersible into the underground tank probably won't work, so I'm looking at more powerful pumps. This looks promising, and is 24v. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Portabl...286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4602e2b3ae

 

[storeman]

Looks like a solution. 1/4 tank should call on the aux if the float switch is working.

 

[reybo]

Looks like a solution. 1/4 tank should call on the aux if the float switch is working.

I'll pull the float and see if it's free-moving. Here's a more powerful pump which might go at a reasonable price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12v-24v-Die...729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4615f68739

 

[Triple Jim]

Why not use a pump exactly like the ones on the 003A, except at the tank?