MEP-003a Governor

[Harleyd12]

I just purchased an 003a and the frequency gauge is all over the place. I have a kill a watt coming to confirm frequency, however I noticed the linkage (related to governor?) below the solenoid and above the oil filter sort of bounces up and down when the unit is running. Much like a vibration but a little more movement than that. Is that normal for these units? I dont notice any change in the sounds of the engine, but I have never heard one run before, so I am not sure what they sound like when they are running properly. Thanks in advance for any guidance!

 

[cuad4u]

Frequency is directly related to engine RPM, nothing else. 1800 engine RPM = 60 Hz. If your engine is running at a constant RPM then your Hz gauge or transducer or both are screwy.

 

[Isaac-1]

It is very common for the frequency transducer that the gauge gets its signal from to go bad on these, they just don't age well, so if you do buy a working replacement it may die soon as well. Replacing the frequency meter with a drop in digital model is probably the best course of action.

 

[Harleyd12]

Thanks, I will look for a digital gauge. Anyone know if the constant bouncing/movement of the linkage is normal?

 

[glcaines]

My 003A linkage doesn't bounce around. My original frequency gauge is steady as a rock after about 5 minutes and will hold 60 Hz for many hours without adjusting RPM. Has anyone warned you that you should never change the engine speed to idle? Shut down all 002A and 003A generators at full 1800 RPM. Otherwise you can damage the VR. Also, never run the engine with the cover open - it will cause the engine to overheat. These are fantastic gensets and are very reliable.

 

[Harleyd12]

My 003A linkage doesn't bounce around. My original frequency gauge is steady as a rock after about 5 minutes and will hold 60 Hz for many hours without adjusting RPM. Has anyone warned you that you should never change the engine speed to idle? Shut down all 002A and 003A generators at full 1800 RPM. Otherwise you can damage the VR. Also, never run the engine with the cover open - it will cause the engine to overheat. These are fantastic gensets and are very reliable.

Thank you, I read the TM before operation and read alot of information on here. So no idling. The guy I bought it from said he had replaced the transducer before and the first few times it ran it stayed steady at about 62. Now it moves from 62 to 63 then will shake around down to 55 for a few seconds then jump back up.

The movement on the linkage concerns me because I am worried it is compensating for something being wrong with the engine. It bounces up and down a little the entire time the engine is running. This is with minimal load. If yours doesnt move, it seems something may not be right with my set up.

 

[Guyfang]

Your linkage is made up of two swivel joints and a peice of all thread. Look at the ball joints, Are they loose? This is a very common problem with the 002 and 003 sets. When there is too much play in the linkage, it jumps up and down. See if the bolts that hold the linkage in place, are tight.

 

[Harleyd12]

Your linkage is made up of two swivel joints and a peice of all thread. Look at the ball joints, Are they loose? This is a very common problem with the 002 and 003 sets. When there is too much play in the linkage, it jumps up and down. See if the bolts that hold the linkage in place, are tight.

I tightnened them up. They were not overly loose. We have storms rolling in, so I couldn't warm her up. This video shows what it does now with no load right after starting. Sorry it is a little rough. Not sure if it will increase as it comes up to temp. Also, the linkage seems to have some cusion to it, almost like a shock absorber.
https://youtu.be/YMKkMN5nBw8

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[cuad4u]

As someone who has refurbished some 34 002A and 003A generators, yours looks and sounds OK to me - based on the video. There is a member on this site who makes digital Hz gauges that look just like the OE gauges and fit in the original hole and mount with the original holes - only digital. His digital gauge costs MUCH less than a new transducer, which may or may not last very long. Check the classified ads on this site. I have bought a number of them.

 

[Chainbreaker]

...There is a member on this site who makes digital Hz gauges that look just like the OE gauges and fit in the original hole and mount with the original holes - only digital. His digital gauge costs MUCH less than a new transducer, which may or may not last very long. Check the classified ads on this site. I have bought a number of them.

Not sure if he (Jimc) has anymore to sell. I contacted him when he only had a few left on eBay and I asked if he was planning on fabricating any more and he said he wasn't sure. So, I bought a complete set of 3 in late March when they were listed as "last 1" on eBay. He had a 2 gauge set that were up for a while now they are gone. I took a quick look on classifieds and didn't notice any. If anyone is still interested I would PM him and see what his plans are for producing another run of them.

 

[Guyfang]

That looked and sounded fine to me. Please remember, this is not a precise power gen set. Its a utility set. If the frequency is not rock stedy, it was not a big deal.

 

[87Nassaublue]

As someone who has refurbished some 34 002A and 003A generators, yours looks and sounds OK to me - based on the video. There is a member on this site who makes digital Hz gauges that look just like the OE gauges and fit in the original hole and mount with the original holes - only digital. His digital gauge costs MUCH less than a new transducer, which may or may not last very long. Check the classified ads on this site. I have bought a number of them.

I agree with crad4u. It sounds pretty good. I would expect the governor linkage to move that much. I would first confirm what the frequency is really doing. I know lowes sells a cheap multi-meter for like $20 that has a frequency counter function. You can put the probes in the convenience outlet with the meter set to measure voltage and then switch it over to Hertz and get an accurate frequency measurement. That's what I use to confirm if my gauges are reading accurately.

 

[87Nassaublue]

Oh by the way, apparently these units had issues with the frequency counters. My 002a only has 144 hours on it since new and one of the two things the military replaced was the frequency counter.

 

[Harleyd12]

The frequency acts as expected. Small loads drop the voltage more than expected but i need to get a heavy load to see if it regulates it.

 

[Guyfang]

An old analog meter is almost better for fast checks of frequency. Digi will not show a freq change as well as an old analog meter. The digi reacts too fast to really show you subtle changes. A needle whipping back and forth is a better way to see the fluctuation.

By freq counter I guess you mean the frequency transducer. According to the books, you never change the transducer without changing the meter. I say BS. Someone has to explain that one to me before I will agree. I almost never did it that way. Cheaper to just replace one or the other, depending on what was broken. Yes, the new meter and the transducer were "Matched" at the factory, but you can do that also.

ALL gen sets that use the frequency transducer/meter matched set, had a reliability problem. We always kept 1-2 on hand in a drawer, or on our PLL (Parts Logistics Location) stockage, at user level. And they are adjustable. Take it off the bulkhead, remove the metal backing plate and you can find a small pot to adjust the transducer. We used a tested, regulated AC power source on the input side to tweak the transducer. But for most people, its simply not that big a deal. Its a utility set and that means you should not be worried about a freq one way or another. That's why we had precise power sets.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Just a FYI - There are several threads on Frequency Meter and Transducer regarding replacement and adjustment. Here are a couple with some good discussion points within:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?76037-Frequency-Transducer-compatibility

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?76944-MEP-Frequency-Meter-is-Funny

 

[Guyfang]

Very informative threads!! Mostly over my head. I simply read the TM's, and followed instructions.

During the almost 30 years of working on army gen sets, I never worried about compatibility, as long as the part numbers on the replacement parts were the same. The NSN is all well and good, but the part number is the real deal. Often, when we ordered something by NSN, the part number was different, the part still worked, but it normally meant it had been a newer, or older purchase by the military. For the ten millionth time, how I wish we had an old copy of FEDLOG. It shows so much info, it's unreal. Type in a NSN, and it will show all compatible NSN's and Compatible part numbers. Not always the same!

The freq transducer/ matched set was one of the few parts that needed to be double checked. And we rarely checked. Simply ordered the part, and put it in. Confirmed the output reading with a multimeter and that was that. Often, someone would get out his handy dandy knob dicker, (small screwdriver) and "adjust" all the meters.

There is a small adjusting screw on all the meter faces. As the needles were almost always below the last meter reading on the scale, these good intentioned souls would adjust the needle to meet the scale, but powered down. The meter would read, but accurate? Not even close.

For most users in the forum, a couple of hertz, or a few volts difference are not going to be a big deal. Once again, that's why the sets are produced in utility and precise versions.

 

[87Nassaublue]

An old analog meter is almost better for fast checks of frequency. Digi will not show a freq change as well as an old analog meter. The digi reacts too fast to really show you subtle changes. A needle whipping back and forth is a better way to see the fluctuation.

By freq counter I guess you mean the frequency transducer. According to the books, you never change the transducer without changing the meter. I say BS. Someone has to explain that one to me before I will agree. I almost never did it that way. Cheaper to just replace one or the other, depending on what was broken. Yes, the new meter and the transducer were "Matched" at the factory, but you can do that also.

ALL gen sets that use the frequency transducer/meter matched set, had a reliability problem. We always kept 1-2 on hand in a drawer, or on our PLL (Parts Logistics Location) stockage, at user level. And they are adjustable. Take it off the bulkhead, remove the metal backing plate and you can find a small pot to adjust the transducer. We used a tested, regulated AC power source on the input side to tweak the transducer. But for most people, its simply not that big a deal. Its a utility set and that means you should not be worried about a freq one way or another. That's why we had precise power sets.

Guyfang, you have a good point there. the old analog meters were as quick to respond as you could get. I have a very old Beckman meter I love. It's pretty much as fast as an analog meter, but no frequency counter function. When they went to the auto ranging stuff, I threw my hands up for precise measurements.