MEP-003A just goes click when trying to start - fully charged fresh batteries

[pclausen]

So I have been tinkering with a 003A I just picked up last week. Got the fuel tank removed and am working on getting it cleaned out. Last night I removed all the filters (they all looked brand new as if this thing had just been serviced before being put away).

Picked up new oil and fuel filters from NAPA today and installed the new oil filter and filled it with fresh oil. I also picked up a pair of Walmart Maxx batteries and a dog-bone connector to go between the 2 batteries.

I'm able to turn over the engine by hand with a wrench on the center fan bolt. It turned over smoothly and I could feel the compression stroke. Excited to turn it over on the starter motor to see if it would make oil pressure, I was disappointed by the sharp click sound I got. All the fuel pump appears to be working. Took 2 or maybe 3 turns of the master switch to the 2 fuel positions, but they run fine now.

So I removed the battery terminal and cleaned the real good down to bare metal the tried again. Same click.

Here's a shot of the installed batteries:



Here's a shot of the ground connector and the positive connection to the starter solenoid. Are these connections problem areas on a 003? Should I pull these connections and clean them up?



I'm just curious if there is something else obvious I should check first before I start removing and cleaning all the high current connections.

Btw, check out the old oil filter and the inside of the canister.



And oil filter mount on engine block.



And dipstick. Rusty on the outside and brand new looking on the inside where it counts.



So I had high hopes this thing would fire right up once I feed it some fresh diesel. Hopefully it is something simple that is preventing the starter from turning over.

 

[Isaac-1]

The first thing I would check is all the ground connections, including the one between the control box and the frame.

 

[R Racing]

The starter itself could be bad. Have you tried it removed from the engine?

 

[Ray70]

If the starter clicks but doesn't turn there's a good chance the solenoid on the starter is either dirty or pitted.
You might notice the bendix moving out to engage the flywheel, but the starter motor doesn't turn....
Many starters of this design have a large copper ring inside that makes contact to complete the circuit sending high current power to the starter motor.
This ring gets pitted from arching and might get stuck in a dirty spot where it isn't making a good connection.
Sometimes tapping on the starter or moving it manually will get it going. You can also try jumping the 2 large wires on the back of the solenoid with a screwdriver to see if it will go, but the best thing is to remove the solenoid and sand the copper ring smooth and clean it all up.
If the clicking noise is coming from the relay and not the starter itself you probably have a problem further up the line that needs to be narrowed down.
Jumping from the fat wire on the starter coming from the battery to the small "S" terminal on the solenoid will also tell you if the starter itself is functioning properly or not.

 

[pclausen]

I played with it a little more just now (before reading these responses), and the clicking appears to be coming from the other side of the engine, near the fuel injection pump. The bendix does not move at all when attempting to start. There is no movement or sound from the starter side of the engine for sure. I'll dig around some more. Thanks!

 

[Isaac-1]

The click from near the injection pump is likely the fuel cut off solenoid opening

 

[Ray70]

Check for power on the small "S" terminal of the starter when you attempt to crank. If there is power the problem is with the starter or the battery wire connection. If there is no power you'll have to back track it and check the switch, the relay , the wires and the lockouts. Take a look at the schematic first so you know the path it follows.

 

[rosco]

If the engine is not cranking, you have to determine why. Fundamentally, it needs to have current to the starter. Determine that. Disconnect & scrape clean, the other ends of all the battery cables, & electric connections. As stated, check that solenoid by jumping it with a screw driver.

 

[pclausen]

Thanks guys. I tried the screwdriver trick and got impressive sparking when shorting to the "S" terminal but nothing else. So I removed all the connections to the starter and pulled it. The starter motor turned over freely. Cleaned all the connectors and put it back together again. Still nothing. Tried the screwdriver trick once more, and more sparking.

I then decided to check the bendix, and it would not move at all using just my fingers. Using a crowbar, I was able to free it up to where it would slide in and out with ease, and low and behold, it started turning over using the start position, but I noticed fireworks by the batteries. Cranking it over again, I saw they came from the braided ground strap from the motor mount to the frame. After inspecting it, it would appear that the bolt along with the braided strap was quite rusted. I was able to make temporary repairs to where I could crank with no issues.

So my next challenge is that the engine is not making any oil pressure. I realize that the oil filter/canister has to fill with oil before building any pressure, but I must have done 10 x 10 second crank sessions and the oil pressure gauge hasn't moved yet. Should I be able to built oil pressure running on just the starter motor? If so, how long does it take?

I suppose the pressure gauge could be stuck? Looks like Advance has a little 2" mechanical oil pressure gauge on sale for $8.99:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...8206/9030005-P?searchTerm=oil+pressure+gauge#

Wonder it that will hook right up to at least rule out the OEM gauge being stuck?

 

[Isaac-1]

I think the original oil pressure gauge uses a 1/4 NPT stub on the back (double check me on this one), that advance one may have a 1/8 inch it is hard to tell from the photo. I if you have one near you I think tractor supply has ones with 1/4 NPT stubs, if not you could use a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter, but that would probably cost as much as the gauge.

Ike

p.s. on cranking mine will wiggle the oil pressure gauge needle a bit

 

[pclausen]

Thanks Ike. I suppose that it would be normal for the pressure gauge to not budge until it fires up then, especially on a set that has been sitting for a long time?

There's an oil pressure switch that will shut it down if no/low pressure at run time I assume, so maybe I'll proceed with priming the fuel system and see what happens, or would you recommend at least getting a gauge to "wiggle" a little on the starter motor before proceeding?

 

[Wildchild467]

If you crank it over and the oil pump fills the canister filter, be sure to check your oil level again a few times after to make sure it is full. Also be sure not to crank the engine over with the switch on the control panel for longer than 15 seconds. Cranking longer than 15 seconds will burn out a component on one of the circuit boards.

 

[Keith_J]

Oil pressure takes a few seconds to build, especially after an oil change. If it doesn't go to 15 psi after ten seconds of running, then shut it down. When the master switch is in the start position, oil pressure shut off is bypassed.

Now, on really new units, the governor fly balls are held in place during assembly with grease, this grease can cause clogging of the oil passages until it is dissolved. If your unit has an Onan replaced engine, as evidenced by a new Onan tag with a 1993 contract date, this might be the case. This tag is on the blower shroud.

 

[Neophyte]

Check the polarity from the batteries to the starter (it was reversed on mine when I picked it up from GL).....same exact symptoms.


Looked at your pictures, polarity looks good.....maybe clean all the connections, might help.

 

[pclausen]

No tag on the blower shroud. It's a 1986 unit with 1320 hours showing on the meter. I'll keep a close eye on it when firing it up for the first time. Oil was about 1 quart low, I topped it off. So the oil pump appears to be working.

Popped the 3 bottom caps off the fuel pumps and cleaned out the strainers, caps, magnets and gaskets. Of course the aux fuel pump was under pressure and when I loosened the cap, I got a nice spray of stale diesel in my face. Oh well, guess the wife is going to make me take a shower tonight...

Fuel tank is cleaned out, just rotating it now with evapo-rust every 6 hours or so to get the last traces of rust off the sides. New fuel filters came in at NAPA today, so I'll pick those up tomorrow and with a bit of luck, might actually get this thing fired up.

It sure is a lot easier to work on than those 802s I got a few months back!

 

[Ray70]

On the oil pressure gage, you need one with a 1/8" NPT fitting on it. The unit from Advance has a compression type fitting for the nylon tube and a 1/8" adapter for the other end. Maybe you could rig it up, but it might be easier to just go on ebay and get a gage with a 1/8" NPT on it. One of my units had a frozen oil gage when I got it. It was doing exactly what yours is doing. A $10 Stewart Warner gage off ebay fix everything and bolted right up. The Advance gage also has a hole in the back for a light which will allow moisture in. It will also probably fail relatively quickly because of all the vibration from the generator. Better off getting a higher quality gage.

 

[pclausen]

Thanks for the tip. I'll get a Stewart Warner if it turns out to still not give a reading with the engine running.

So I picked up my filters from NAPA (already installed the oil filter a few days ago).



Unfortunately, the center section on these NAPA filters have 4 cutouts where the 003 center bolt has 3 as seen here.



So I bent down the 4 tabs with a deep socket. Unfortunately this means that the filter would not center properly in the housing when installing it. The 2nd filter element in particular kept wanting to lean against one side. Anyway, I managed to get them on, but next time I change filters, I'll definitely look for another brand with the 3 cutouts instead of 4. The fuel filters did include the o-rings, but not the brass washer for the fuel filter passage bolt.

Anyway, with the separator and fuel filter bowls installed, I was all ready to bleed the system, only when I went to loose the 2nd fuel filter plug bleed screw, it snapped off flush with the top of the passage bolt. #@#@$!# Found both bolts on eBay for a reasonable price, but with shipping it still came to over $20. So now I have to wait for those to come in. At least the fuel tank will get to soak in Evapo-Rust for that much longer.

 

[Isaac-1]

This is why we say to use the FRAM filters

 

[pclausen]

I missed that. I saw some references to the NAPA in a couple of other threads and picked those up. The fuel filters that were in there were also the NAPA 3113s and getting the old o-rings out was a pain, as was putting in the new ones. They were slightly too wide to slip into the groove easily. Had to use a screw drive to push them in all the way around.

Just ordered some Fram C1125PL filters from race-mart. They seem to have the best prices. Hopefully this will help someone else out that see the other threads with references to the NAPA 3113 filters. The NAPA oil filter seems to fit OK, but I had to use the original o-ring as the the one with the NAPA filter is way to wide. On the next change, I'll go with a FRAM here as well.

 

[pclausen]

I got the fuel tank all cleaned out and re-installed and added about 3 gallons of diesel. I had previously cleaned the strainer filters on all 3 fuel pumps. When in PRIME & RUN, the primary fuel pump comes on, but it is not drawing in fuel from the tank. I removed the OUT line from that first pump, and still nothing. Removed the IN line and put my thumb over it, don't feel any suction when it's running. Should I remove the fuel pump and soak it in kerosene or something? Does the 24 V wire going into the pump pull off? I can turn it, but it doesn't seem to want to pull off. Same issue with the connectors on the in-line cap.