Mep 016B Fuel issue(Hurricane Ida help)

[Coug]

I came up with another reason why using a 3k on 240 wired to the house might be a bad idea.

Load balancing.

In 120V only mode, you have 3kw of power through that one circuit.
In 120/240 mode, that 120V power is now separated into 2 1500 watt circuits.
So to use my example above with hair dryer and microwave, if they were the only things running you might be fine on 120V only. In 120/240, if you run them both and they are on the same feed circuit, you're now badly overloading one half of the generator wiring. Most people don't know what in the house feeds off which line in, so it's a decent chance you'll destroy something.
Unless you have 12.5 amp breakers installed for the generator feed, don't expect this overload to be caught. The breakers are just there to protect the wiring from being overloaded; the gen output in 240V mode is less amperage than your average household circuit (usually 15 or 20 amp).

 

[36racin]

I have a small Yamaha generator i can run refrigerator, freezer and small a/c unit with(off extension cords)..I need the gen(220v) to run my water well pump(but could wire to 110V temporally to get running water. And to circulate my swimming pool some. Pool pump is a variable speed pump so I dont see it using alot of power.

Circuit box is wired where I can move main breaker to off(and lock it) and I can also remove the meter for more safety for the lineman.

 

[Mullaney]

I came up with another reason why using a 3k on 240 wired to the house might be a bad idea.

Load balancing.

In 120V only mode, you have 3kw of power through that one circuit.
In 120/240 mode, that 120V power is now separated into 2 1500 watt circuits.
So to use my example above with hair dryer and microwave, if they were the only things running you might be fine on 120V only. In 120/240, if you run them both and they are on the same feed circuit, you're now badly overloading one half of the generator wiring. Most people don't know what in the house feeds off which line in, so it's a decent chance you'll destroy something.
Unless you have 12.5 amp breakers installed for the generator feed, don't expect this overload to be caught. The breakers are just there to protect the wiring from being overloaded; the gen output in 240V mode is less amperage than your average household circuit (usually 15 or 20 amp).

.
Thinking that when used long term, load balancing and a prewired set of circuits would be a big plus. Even standing there looking at a breaker panel most folks have no idea which leg of a curcuit comes from which buss bar.

Running a smaller generator to feed a house with a 200 amp service is a lot like the joke -- What do you mean? I can't be out of money! I still have plenty of checks.

I think that is why a lot of folks break out XX circuits into a separate box. Power from the generator feeds those circuits only and that helps solve the potential overload. AND teaching the members of the household what can and can't be done on generator power. Either way takes effort, time and planning.

 

[Coug]

I have a small Yamaha generator i can run refrigerator, freezer and small a/c unit with(off extension cords)..I need the gen(220v) to run my water well pump(but could wire to 110V temporally to get running water. And to circulate my swimming pool some. Pool pump is a variable speed pump so I dont see it using alot of power.

Circuit box is wired where I can move main breaker to off(and lock it) and I can also remove the meter for more safety for the lineman.

For the circuit box, unless it is an interlock that only allows one either the main breaker, or the generator feed breaker to be closed, not both. Without some sort of a physical lock of some type that only allows either the gen or the utility to be connected at the time it isn't legal. Just having the ability to lock the main breaker isn't good enough for generator use.

Yes, the meter can be pulled. Then you have the utility guys mad at you for messing with the meter. They usually have some type of a seal on them, and they might start looking closer at what you're doing, and cause issues for you.


if you are planning on this for your well pump, I'd recommend you test it with just the well pump first before going through hardwiring and whatnot.
The reason being, most well pumps have a pretty big surge load. It might be able to handle the running amps, but the starting amps can be 6-10 times the running amps. The reason the breakers don't trip is because it's such a short time for the surge; it doesn't heat up the wires and breaker enough to trip it.

for example, the NEC says a 1hp well pump is rated about 8 amps running. They also say that the start surge can be about 48 amps. Even if you have a 1/2hp pump (which is a small one) you'd still be looking at the possibility of 25 amps surge or more at startup.
The gen might be able to handle the surge. Military generators tend to be overbuilt, and being a diesel there is enough rotating mass that it might make it past the surge load. It probably won't be happy about it though.
If you are doing this through your main circuit panel and trying to power anything else at the time, you might have issues. The surge in load might throw the voltage/frequency off enough to damage some electronics (not saying it will, just giving it as a possibility.)

All that is basically to say, you can safely pick running it through your house panel for basics light lights and fridge/freezer, OR you can have it do the well pump and other motor driven items, but trying to do both will likely end up causing issues.

 

[36racin]

For the circuit box, unless it is an interlock that only allows one either the main breaker, or the generator feed breaker to be closed, not both. Without some sort of a physical lock of some type that only allows either the gen or the utility to be connected at the time it isn't legal. Just having the ability to lock the main breaker isn't good enough for generator use.

Yes, the meter can be pulled. Then you have the utility guys mad at you for messing with the meter. They usually have some type of a seal on them, and they might start looking closer at what you're doing, and cause issues for you.


if you are planning on this for your well pump, I'd recommend you test it with just the well pump first before going through hardwiring and whatnot.
The reason being, most well pumps have a pretty big surge load. It might be able to handle the running amps, but the starting amps can be 6-10 times the running amps. The reason the breakers don't trip is because it's such a short time for the surge; it doesn't heat up the wires and breaker enough to trip it.

for example, the NEC says a 1hp well pump is rated about 8 amps running. They also say that the start surge can be about 48 amps. Even if you have a 1/2hp pump (which is a small one) you'd still be looking at the possibility of 25 amps surge or more at startup.
The gen might be able to handle the surge. Military generators tend to be overbuilt, and being a diesel there is enough rotating mass that it might make it past the surge load. It probably won't be happy about it though.
If you are doing this through your main circuit panel and trying to power anything else at the time, you might have issues. The surge in load might throw the voltage/frequency off enough to damage some electronics (not saying it will, just giving it as a possibility.)

All that is basically to say, you can safely pick running it through your house panel for basics light lights and fridge/freezer, OR you can have it do the well pump and other motor driven items, but trying to do both will likely end up causing issues.

I actually have two different meters....One for house and one for shop and poolhouse

 

[Mullaney]

For the circuit box, unless it is an interlock that only allows one either the main breaker, or the generator feed breaker to be closed, not both. Without some sort of a physical lock of some type that only allows either the gen or the utility to be connected at the time it isn't legal. Just having the ability to lock the main breaker isn't good enough for generator use.

Yes, the meter can be pulled. Then you have the utility guys mad at you for messing with the meter. They usually have some type of a seal on them, and they might start looking closer at what you're doing, and cause issues for you.


if you are planning on this for your well pump, I'd recommend you test it with just the well pump first before going through hardwiring and whatnot.
The reason being, most well pumps have a pretty big surge load. It might be able to handle the running amps, but the starting amps can be 6-10 times the running amps. The reason the breakers don't trip is because it's such a short time for the surge; it doesn't heat up the wires and breaker enough to trip it.

for example, the NEC says a 1hp well pump is rated about 8 amps running. They also say that the start surge can be about 48 amps. Even if you have a 1/2hp pump (which is a small one) you'd still be looking at the possibility of 25 amps surge or more at startup.
The gen might be able to handle the surge. Military generators tend to be overbuilt, and being a diesel there is enough rotating mass that it might make it past the surge load. It probably won't be happy about it though.
If you are doing this through your main circuit panel and trying to power anything else at the time, you might have issues. The surge in load might throw the voltage/frequency off enough to damage some electronics (not saying it will, just giving it as a possibility.)

All that is basically to say, you can safely pick running it through your house panel for basics light lights and fridge/freezer, OR you can have it do the well pump and other motor driven items, but trying to do both will likely end up causing issues.

.
Nicely said Coug !

I think you covered all the bases and confirmed what has been said in several other threads on the topic.

 

[dav5]

.
Nicely said Coug !

I think you covered all the bases and confirmed what has been said in several other threads on the topic.

I have a MEP 831A at my camp. It is wired 220 through a generator subpanel. I use it to power my submersible well pump, water heater and refrigerator. I had to replace the heater elements with 3000W elements but otherwise with proper load management it does a great job. When the water heater and pump are turned off the refrigerator and a few 15 amp breakers are operable. Obviously I have to be very careful about what is plugged into the 15 amp circuits at any given time.

 

[Mullaney]

I have a MEP 831A at my camp. It is wired 220 through a generator subpanel. I use it to power my submersible well pump, water heater and refrigerator. I had to replace the heater elements with 3000W elements but otherwise with proper load management it does a great job. When the water heater and pump are turned off the refrigerator and a few 15 amp breakers are operable. Obviously I have to be very careful about what is plugged into the 15 amp circuits at any given time.

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I think that is the most difficult thing about using generators to power a house or building. Most folks really want (expect?) the same thing they have coming in off the street. While that is possible, you need large deep pockets to make that happen!

As you mentioned dav5 , MANAGING the need is what folks need to do. Funny how people are. Compared to everyone else with no generator - people will still whine when their 2000 watt hair dryer "blows the circuit".

Sounds to me like you have a plan and it works!

 

[nonnieselman]

My MEP-003 changes tones a little when the well pump kicks on. The MEP-002 really changes tones and has a little puff of exhaust smoke when the well pump turns on.

 

[Abrant23]

Yes, the meter can be pulled. Then you have the utility guys mad at you for messing with the meter. They usually have some type of a seal on them, and they might start looking closer at what you're doing, and cause issues for you.

First off, I STRONGLY recommend a proper transfer switch with main lockout for any generator hookup.

That being said, last major hurricane we had, before I had the proper hookup, we ran the whole house off a 19kw whacker g25. Jerked out the meter, and suicide whipped it into the line side right there. Funny part was the lineman that came by thanked me for being "proactive" and handed me a couple of their lockout tags to put back on the meter base when the power came back on and I shoved the meter back in the socket, so he wouldn't have to make another trip out to do it himself. Everything is remotely monitored these days so they can tell if you're tampering with stuff pretty quickly. The tags aren't nearly as important as they once were.

Still, It's way better to do it properly and not take any chances.