MEP 1040 Fix-up Thread

[CallMeColt]

White smoke can happen for a variety of reasons, and there is a nice summary of things to consider here

Causes of Diesel Engine Smoke - By Color

There are many common causes for diesel engine smoke from burning oil, fuel or regeneration issues and can be diagnosed by its white, blue and black colors.

www.capitalremanexchange.com

(As a general rule, I think it is useful to be able to narrow the list of potential issues by understanding smoke color. FWIW: white smoke from a blown injector can be like watching a smoke grenade go off, copious amounts of white smoke, but not always.)

I would go through the TM troubleshooting steps, but from miles away, white smoke after being run hard isn't something I associate with an electrical gremlin.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

I wasn't saying the white smoke came from the electrical issue, I said it was from unburnt fuel due to an abrupt shutdown after running WOT. Similar to wet stack. I have started it a few times since & no smoke at all now.

 

[CallMeColt]

After testing the AVR in from the DCS, I believe it may not be working correctly.

CB's tested okay & were not tripped. Pulled them to test.

Using the information from the link to the thread I posted in post #19, I tested for DC voltage at J90. At idle, I saw nothing. Only after the engine started to idle up, it showed some then stopped due to the fault causing shutdown.

If I plug it in & let it attempt to do it's thing, it will idle, then start to excite... & it makes the engine struggle. You can hear the generator head whine a bit & the voltage is about half what it should be. Clear smell of bad electrical. I didn't let it do this before shutting it down on my own. Other times, it will give the Excitation Fault during idle.

@peapvp seems to be a subject matter expert, I'm hoping he can help!

My thought at this point is three possible thing, in the most likely order;
DCS has bad AVR & is making things wonky. Why it went bad? Not sure.
Something internal to the generator head went bad.
Something with the engine is wrong, not letting it produce enough power to spool up during excitation.

To provide the most help, here's a picture with my control & display information.


I also have another DCS. It came out of a MEP 1060, but the numbers (except SN) match on the bottom. If I'm not mistaken, they use the same screen MEP 1030 to 1070? I don't want to just shove it in there & cause more issues.

After I finish typing this post, I am going to go dig into the TM again on this.

 

[FarmingSmallKubota]

DCS is the same

 

[Light in the Dark]

Yes its the one common item across them.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I've got a tested one if you have any issues.

 

[peapvp]

After testing the AVR in from the DCS, I believe it may not be working correctly.

CB's tested okay & were not tripped. Pulled them to test.

Using the information from the link to the thread I posted in post #19, I tested for DC voltage at J90. At idle, I saw nothing. Only after the engine started to idle up, it showed some then stopped due to the fault causing shutdown.

If I plug it in & let it attempt to do it's thing, it will idle, then start to excite... & it makes the engine struggle. You can hear the generator head whine a bit & the voltage is about half what it should be. Clear smell of bad electrical. I didn't let it do this before shutting it down on my own. Other times, it will give the Excitation Fault during idle.

@peapvp seems to be a subject matter expert, I'm hoping he can help!

My thought at this point is three possible thing, in the most likely order;
DCS has bad AVR & is making things wonky. Why it went bad? Not sure.
Something internal to the generator head went bad.
Something with the engine is wrong, not letting it produce enough power to spool up during excitation.

To provide the most help, here's a picture with my control & display information.
View attachment 925613

I also have another DCS. It came out of a MEP 1060, but the numbers (except SN) match on the bottom. If I'm not mistaken, they use the same screen MEP 1030 to 1070? I don't want to just shove it in there & cause more issues.

After I finish typing this post, I am going to go dig into the TM again on this.

Hi @CallMeColt
Here it goes:
Using the information from the link to the thread I posted in post #19, I tested for DC voltage at J90. At idle, I saw nothing. Only after the engine started to idle up, it showed some Showed what? Easter Eggs? How many? then stopped due to the fault causing shutdown.

If I plug it in What are you plugging in where? & let it attempt to do it's thing, it will idle, then start to excite... & it makes the engine struggle. You can hear the generator head whine a bit & the voltage is about half what it should be. Clear smell of bad electrical. I didn't let it do this before shutting it down on my own. Other times, it will give the Excitation Fault during idle.

First measure the DC resistance of your exciter coil, that’s terminals F1 and F2 which have to be disconnected from the AVR J90

report back

try not to disclose to much information on these AMMPs here in the forum

there are hundreds off them in service on the front lines in the Ukraine

we do not want to tell the Russians on how to fix the conquered ones and have them displayed fully operational in the red square exhibit with all the telecom stuff they got already

 

[CallMeColt]

Hi @CallMeColt
Here it goes:
Using the information from the link to the thread I posted in post #19, I tested for DC voltage at J90. At idle, I saw nothing. Only after the engine started to idle up, it showed some Showed what? Easter Eggs? How many? then stopped due to the fault causing shutdown.

If I plug it in What are you plugging in where? & let it attempt to do it's thing, it will idle, then start to excite... & it makes the engine struggle. You can hear the generator head whine a bit & the voltage is about half what it should be. Clear smell of bad electrical. I didn't let it do this before shutting it down on my own. Other times, it will give the Excitation Fault during idle.

First measure the DC resistance of your exciter coil, that’s terminals F1 and F2 which have to be disconnected from the AVR J90

report back

try not to disclose to much information on these AMMPs here in the forum

there are hundreds off them in service on the front lines in the Ukraine

we do not want to tell the Russians on how to fix the conquered ones and have them displayed fully operational in the red square exhibit with all the telecom stuff they got already

Answering you questions in red;

It went to 12v or so then cut out once it faulted.

Plugging J90 back in.

I found the steps in the TM for testing the exciter coil and other stuff, just have not done it yet as I didn't have time yesterday evening. Plan to get to that as soon as I can.

 

[peapvp]

Answering you questions in red;

It went to 12v or so then cut out once it faulted.

Plugging J90 back in.

I found the steps in the TM for testing the exciter coil and other stuff, just have not done it yet as I didn't have time yesterday evening. Plan to get to that as soon as I can.

12V looks ok to get excitation started, if the A1 doesn’t sense a high voltage build up on gen head output then it will abort excitation, very much like what we saw here in your case with J90 open, meaning exciter coil disconnected.

The excitation coil test will lead us in the right direction.
At this point, by the smoke and noise the gen head is making when J90 is connected and A1 excites exciter coil, it looks to be the diode ring and field coil, but this needs to be confirmed.

Your prolonged power test probably caused the gen head internals to overheat.
Again all this has to be verified, to rule in our out as cause of failure.

The AVR has to put out a higher voltage into the exciter coil to keep the output voltage at the set level when going over 100% load.
This higher voltage is transferred through the increased magnetic field into the rotor windings through the 6 rectifier diodes on the diode rings.

The Russian Military Generators would respond the same way. But vodka in the coolant system and Siberian temperatures may aid in this prolonged output test.

 

[CallMeColt]

12V looks ok to get excitation started, if the A1 doesn’t sense a high voltage build up on gen head output then it will abort excitation, very much like what we saw here in your case with J90 open, meaning exciter coil disconnected.

The excitation coil test will lead us in the right direction.
At this point, by the smoke and noise the gen head is making when J90 is connected and A1 excites exciter coil, it looks to be the diode ring and field coil, but this needs to be confirmed.

Your prolonged power test probably caused the gen head internals to overheat.
Again all this has to be verified, to rule in our out as cause of failure.

The AVR has to put out a higher voltage into the exciter coil to keep the output voltage at the set level when going over 100% load.
This higher voltage is transferred through the increased magnetic field into the rotor windings through the 6 rectifier diodes on the diode rings.

The Russian Military Generators would respond the same way. But vodka in the coolant system and Siberian temperatures may aid in this prolonged output test.

Exciter coil was 12.3 ohm.

I agree that I think things just got toasty in there & it's done. Tried the other DCS & I at least confirmed it is good & does what it should.

I didn't think it would be an issue running it that high as I have done it many times on the older units. If it was to much, it opened the contractor. Figured it would do the same. Wondering if this is a flaw that has been updated with the newer DCS? Similar to how the Fuse and MOV modifications were made to be done to avoid a similar issue on the older units.

By older units, I mean MEP 802A & 803A.

I guess I will pull the batteries and fuel out & keep it to the side in hopes I find an alternator or donor machine with a bad motor/enclosure or something.

Still am going through the TM & plan to test each wire to confirm there is no short somewhere, but not optimistic. I think I just killed it!

 

[Light in the Dark]

Exciter coil was 12.3 ohm.

I agree that I think things just got toasty in there & it's done. Tried the other DCS & I at least confirmed it is good & does what it should.

I didn't think it would be an issue running it that high as I have done it many times on the older units. If it was to much, it opened the contractor. Figured it would do the same. Wondering if this is a flaw that has been updated with the newer DCS? Similar to how the Fuse and MOV modifications were made to be done to avoid a similar issue on the older units.

By older units, I mean MEP 802A & 803A.

I guess I will pull the batteries and fuel out & keep it to the side in hopes I find an alternator or donor machine with a bad motor/enclosure or something.

Still am going through the TM & plan to test each wire to confirm there is no short somewhere, but not optimistic. I think I just killed it!

If it can't take a sustained 12 and shed effectively, it sounds like a design flaw for certain!

 

[peapvp]

The upper maximum power limit is

11KW

Your test voids all warranty

 

[peapvp]

And, the AMMPS MEP’s are no longer derated for altitude operations

Now you need to reduce your load by 3.5% for every 1,000 feet altitude, beginning at 4,000 feet

 

[CallMeColt]

View attachment 925630
The upper maximum power limit is

11KW

Your test voids all warranty

I saw that & it says it on the panel even. It is toast! Just figured it would dump the load like previous generators if it was to much. Guess not. I confirmed it. You just get a little yellow warning. So be warned.

 

[peapvp]

I saw that & it says it on the panel even. It is toast! Just figured it would dump the load like previous generators if it was to much. Guess not. I confirmed it. You just get a little yellow warning. So be warned.

@CallMeColt
These genset’s were designed for young, very smart people who are fully proficient in common core math……

I am inching my way to retirement

 

[CallMeColt]

@CallMeColt
These genset’s were designed for young, very smart people who are fully proficient in common core math……

I am inching my way to retirement

I'm generally really good. The first three letters off assume got me on this one, I fully admit it. I ignored the warning.

Luckily this was more of a time costly mistake than a money one. And I learned what not to do, all be it the hard way.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I am even less impressed with the AMMPS lineup now than before. Good thing they sell cheap....

 

[CallMeColt]

 

[spotrep]

Can’t wait to watch this later!

 

[CallMeColt]

I hope to have the other 2 video finished up at published over the next two Fridays.

 

[CallMeColt]