Hello All, First off, I have gone to the manuals, but can't seem to find the issue I am having. I had my unit for sale, a gentleman was coming this afternoon to look and buy. I came home early to get it running, which has never been a problem at all. It started right up, ran for a couple minutes than stopped. The fault lights are dimly lit, when turning on S1, it will activate the solenoid for pre heat, will occasionally activate the fuel pump but will not crank. When I go to crank, the solenoid activates to kick the starter in, but not crank. I can get it to crank with the switch inside by fuel filter(forgot the name), but it won't start. It seemed as the S1 was bad since I could get it to crank and activate main fuel pump on occasion. So, changed to another one I had off another machine. Now, won't crank, all other functions happen as I described above. I don't know where to start next. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This guy is sitting there waiting for my call with cash wanting to buy this unit!
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MEP 802 suddenly stops running
- Thread starter CapePrep
- Start date
- 16,933
- 24,612
- 113
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- Burgkunstadt, Germany
If you have good charged batteries, then start looking at connections. Battery, AND canon plugs. I have seen problems like this, that were the canon plugs under the control panel. LOOK at the plug ends. Sometimes the pins get burnt when the plug is loose. I know that looking at the receptacle on the bottom of the control panel is a real PITA, and when your old and stiff, it even worse. But look there also.
OK Gentlemen, I have taken your advice and verified battery voltage, checked canon plugs, looked for anything obvious, frayed, disconnected. All "appears" good. After rotating S1 slowly and in numerous positions, I did get the fuel pump to kick on and start. But would have to keep S1 in "start" position to keep it running. If I released to "run" it would run for about 30 seconds and shut down. And when it shut down, the fuel pump would not be running. After getting it started a couple of times, it would not start again. I initially suspected a bad S1, hence my replacing it initially. The fault lights are all on as well. Very dim though. I have pulled the schematics and the TM-24 to diagnose the "no crank" scenario. I have used the docs for an 803, hoping it is the same for an 802. Couldn't seem to find something specific for an 802. There is something simple electrically going on stopping it from starting and running. Any additional help would be greatly appreciated. I can feel this buyer slipping away!!
- 16,933
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- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
The information is the same for the 802 and 803.
Were the symptoms the same BEFORE changing the S1? Like dim lights? If not, you need to look at how you wired the S1. If not, you need to find out whats making the lights dim. That a battery drain, or a bad ground.
When you write it wont start again, I assume you mean it cranks, but wont start, instead of it wont crank at all. If so, its clear, the reason it cranks, but wont start is because the fuel pump wont deliver fuel. That's why it started once or twice for short time periods. What was left in the fuel lines was good to start it, until it went dry.
Try starting it, and before letting the S1 snap back to run, engage the S7. What happens?
Were the symptoms the same BEFORE changing the S1? Like dim lights? If not, you need to look at how you wired the S1. If not, you need to find out whats making the lights dim. That a battery drain, or a bad ground.
When you write it wont start again, I assume you mean it cranks, but wont start, instead of it wont crank at all. If so, its clear, the reason it cranks, but wont start is because the fuel pump wont deliver fuel. That's why it started once or twice for short time periods. What was left in the fuel lines was good to start it, until it went dry.
Try starting it, and before letting the S1 snap back to run, engage the S7. What happens?
Guy, thanks for your input. Greatly appreciated. To answer your questions, yes the symptoms were the same before changing S1. While working S1, I can get the lights to change intensity, and when I did get it to crank over and start, they were completely out. And yes, it will not crank. It engages the pre heat relay, but that is it. Unless I get it to engage the fuel pump and than it will do the start for 30 second thing. I am scouring the schematics and troubleshooting. Need to apply the directions on that I guess. I agree on a loose/bad ground. Or a bad relay. The dim lights lead me to a bad connection somewhere. The odd thing is when I initially started it, it cranked right up, ran for a couple minutes than just shut down and we started down this road. Hence, something simple is going on.
- 2,544
- 2,111
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- Efland, NC
What you are describing is a high resistance current path somewhere. The symptoms of that kind of fault is an excessive voltage drop. You can use that to find the fault.
You need to choose a few places around the main power circuit to take voltage readings to the ground terminal of the battery. There are several test points in the diagnostic connector that can make doing this quick and simple. If you look at the wiring diagram you'll see little triangles with letters in them. Those correspond to pins in the diagnostic connector.
How are you with reading and understanding electrical diagrams? I'm not being critical. We need to know your competency level to best help you. We also don't want to suggest you do something that without experience and understanding gets you hurt or damages your equipment further.
You need to choose a few places around the main power circuit to take voltage readings to the ground terminal of the battery. There are several test points in the diagnostic connector that can make doing this quick and simple. If you look at the wiring diagram you'll see little triangles with letters in them. Those correspond to pins in the diagnostic connector.
How are you with reading and understanding electrical diagrams? I'm not being critical. We need to know your competency level to best help you. We also don't want to suggest you do something that without experience and understanding gets you hurt or damages your equipment further.
Interesting, I agree it sounds like S1 switch since you can move it around in different directions to get it to function. Also since it will change the light output of the fault indicators. I have several new style (metal) S1 switches if you need one. They are expensive ($113+shipping), thats what I paid for them from Electroswitch. Electroswitch does not keep any in stock and makes them to order so it takes about 30 days to get them.
- 2,544
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- Efland, NC
Please don't assume. TEST TEST TEST. If you can't measure a the problem don't change anything.
OK Guys, a follow up. I continued to make sure the batteries were charged. Both were definitely down a bit. But continued with the sporadic problem. I kept "working" S1, rotating back and forth. I was able to get it started normally. A couple of times it did die after 30 seconds or so. Than one time it tried to die, I hit the battle short. It came right back up to speed. That happened one more time and it has been fine since. Guyfang had suggested doing that with the BS switch. I am not knowledgable enough to know what that does, but I am thinking that the unit has sat for a few months and switch contacts/relays/? became a little corroded, oxidized and just needed to be worked. I have loaded it up with my load bank, and run it for over an hour. Have restarted numerous times and it seems fine. The buyer came yesterday and is very happy with it and will be picking up this weekend. So, for now and hope permanently, the problem is solved. I think it is another example of how these need to be exercised and worked on a regular basis. Thank you everyone for your help and encouragement.
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If corrosion was the concern, you (or the new owner) should really take some Deoxit and flush that and all of the other multiposition switches in the machines (requires the cover coming off). If it was corrosion, you just temporarily made it work again. The Deoxit should clean the contacts much more thoroughly.
- 16,933
- 24,612
- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
Problems just don't "just go away". If the S7 will keep it running, then keep in mind just what S7 does.
Light, Another Massh$#^% up bright and early! Thanks for the tip, I will definitely do that today so that the new owner doesn't have any issues. Kills me to sell these units so cheaply, but the market is what it is. A low hour 802, all mods done(LED lights, quad fuse, casters, all fluids/filters) for less than $3K. But, I don't need 2 of these units and I need the room in my shop. Oh well, so is life.
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- 3,863
- 6,093
- 113
- Location
- MA
"It's time to make the donuts", as the locals say. Is this machine the green one I see down past Mashpee? Ive sold many 802s over the years at 2850... but definitely not lately.
- 16,933
- 24,612
- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
Up early? Folks, its 12:04! Almost lunch time. I have to hop all over to get that! Takes an hour to get lunch ready, and that's just bread and cheese.
If you are referring to CL ad, yes. I have had it for sale for months over $3K and had absolutely no action at all. I dropped it below that and have had a couple inquiries. So, the one guy that was serious, I made the deal to move it along. The market is what it is. They are worth much more in my opinion.
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CL is funny... truly a terrible selling medium. But its pretty much what we are stuck with. Glad you found a buyer all the same.
Well Guy, you probably have gotten much more done already than I! Rolling out of the rack now heading to the coffee pot. And still pitch black outside at 6AM! Enjoy that bread and cheese!
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When can I show up for some Jägerschnitzel?