MEP-802A GP Win

[Guyfang]

I can't imagine living that close to a cathedral. What an experience!

Here is a short article about the Dom.

Bamberg Cathedral - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

If you don't want to watch the whole thing, skip to 2:15 seconds, plug in the head phones, (so the dog wont leave the country) and get ready. I could not find the Christmas recording. It goes on for about 40-45 min.

Oh, no matter how loud you can turn it up, it aint even close!

 

[Mainsail]

First rule of troubleshooting is to return to the previous known good condition, so that was this morning's effort. I jacked it up and put it back on the wood blocks, the configuration it was in out on the driveway.

This produced almost no vibration whatsoever. Wife was as shocked as I was.



So from that point I pulled the compound miter saw out of the garage (and changed the blade) and cut some 2X10 ground contact lumber into wood blocks.

The J-bolts in the slab became locator pins for matching hole in the blocks; should keep things from wandering. With or without the lag bolts securing the genset to the blocks only minimal vibrations.

Once the rest of my shock pads order gets here I'm planning to try it with the two pads under each wood block.

 

[2Pbfeet]

Love the "first rule of troubleshooting"!

Great news!

When your extra pads get there, I would try some rubber under the bolt, but above the rail. It should help the absorption, but it will also reduce the forces trying to unscrew your bolt. More padding is not necessarily better. That is why there are weight ratings on isolators. You want some, but not full compression at maximum down force, and less than 100% rebound on the other half.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Mullaney]

First rule of troubleshooting is to return to the previous known good condition, so that was this morning's effort. I jacked it up and put it back on the wood blocks, the configuration it was in out on the driveway.

This produced almost no vibration whatsoever. Wife was as shocked as I was.

View attachment 906572

So from that point I pulled the compound miter saw out of the garage (and changed the blade) and cut some 2X10 ground contact lumber into wood blocks.

The J-bolts in the slab became locator pins for matching hole in the blocks; should keep things from wandering. With or without the lag bolts securing the genset to the blocks only minimal vibrations.

Once the rest of my shock pads order gets here I'm planning to try it with the two pads under each wood block.

View attachment 906573

.
That is impressive!
Glad to hear that sort of progress too.

Amazing what some wooden blocks will do.
We have equipment here in the printshop that are installed on wooden blocks.

Picture Below. This machine doesn't vibrate like a GenSet, but all the same . . .
I can't speak to the cuts on the bottom but seemed worth mention. Since these are indoors, and saying these blocks are "hard rock maple" they wouldn't work in this particular application (obviously).

You already mentioned using treated lumber...

.

 

[2Pbfeet]

.
That is impressive!
Glad to hear that sort of progress too.

Amazing what some wooden blocks will do.
We have equipment here in the printshop that are installed on wooden blocks.

Picture Below. This machine doesn't vibrate like a GenSet, but all the same . . .
I can't speak to the cuts on the bottom but seemed worth mention. Since these are indoors, and saying these blocks are "hard rock maple" they wouldn't work in this particular application (obviously).

You already mentioned using treated lumber...

.

Those cuts are kerf cuts and allow the hard maple to bend to accommodate any irregularities in the floor. It helps keep them from splitting.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Mullaney]

Those cuts are kerf cuts and allow the hard maple to bend to accommodate any irregularities in the floor. It helps keep them from splitting.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

.
Neat to know! Thanks @2Pbfeet . I walked out back a few minutes and looked under a 1973 model machine and it has the exact same material under it. Amazing how regular preventive maintenance will keep an old girl happy and running.

 

[Mainsail]

This is it, at least for now. Two pads under each block. One corner of the slab is slightly low, so the opposite corner wasn't carrying much weight. Shimmed it up with some hardiplank and now it's perfectly level.

I may re-attack at some point to try to get it a little lower, or with only one block of wood. Right now in this config the vibration isn't perceptible inside the house, and the gen is tactically quiet.

 

[2Pbfeet]

That looks like a win.

I am not sure that I would let perfection triumph over good enough. If it works, it is safe, doesn't rattle the glasses, and your spouse is happy...

 

[Mainsail]

UPDATE: The electrician finally squeezed me in and got the generator connected to the house. My underground conduit came out in the right spot next to the house by good fortune.

The generator lock-out wasn't what I was expecting at all - I thought it would be a black box of some sort (having never really thought about it at all) but it's just a mechanical lock that doesn't allow the two top left breakers, which is the generator input, from being in the ON position at the same time as the main breaker. It's effective.

Had him install a whole-house surge protector while he was in there. He did all the work with the power on the whole time

The moment of truth came, fired up the genset, flipped the main breaker OFF, generator breakers ON and .... nothing

Woops, forgot to close the contactor....

With the HVAC running and the normal amount of lights turned on (it was about 8:30pm when he finished) and all the other things that normally run, the load was about 25%. Turning on the only two-phase load, the oven, took it to about 75%. Without the oven and just lights, clothes dryer (gas so one-phase) and the whole-house ventilation fan it was about 40%.

That was just some ad-hoc testing, nothing detailed, and only to get a feel for whether the 802 was going to be enough generator. I'll do some more detailed testing later, but for now I'm confident I can power pretty much anything in the house during an outage as long as I'm mindful about the oven (which I very much doubt I'll need to run) and the washer/dryer running simultaneously.

Wife was pleasantly surprised at how quiet it was, and given the time of night and nothing running like TV or radio noise floor, was welcome news.

So, I'm glad I ended up with the 802 vs the 803. I suspect I'd need to purposefully turn on things I don't need just to keep the load sufficient to prevent wet stacking the motor with the 803, which would be drinking diesel at a much higher rate.

Only thing left is some better load testing and finding an external tank.

 

[Denvercaitland]

As an option for external tank.

I found a used truck tank in good conditions ( 75 imp gallons). Built a cradle for it. Works well.

 

[DieselAddict]

I've been trying to get one of those for less than a fortune for a very long time.

 

[Denvercaitland]

Very practical indeed, load it up when needs refill. Quick connect to 803a or use pump to refill skidsteer, snow blower.

 

[Ray70]

"With the HVAC running and the normal amount of lights turned on (it was about 8:30pm when he finished) and all the other things that normally run, the load was about 25%. Turning on the only two-phase load, the oven, took it to about 75%. Without the oven and just lights, clothes dryer (gas so one-phase) and the whole-house ventilation fan it was about 40%."


Thought for sure you were going to get roasted by the electrical guru's here for calling your 240V oven "two-Phase"
It's technically not 2 phase, just single phase 240V or some may call it split phase.
Interestingly there is apparently 1 place in Philly which still has a true Two phase 90 degree power system in operation.

 

[2Pbfeet]

"With the HVAC running and the normal amount of lights turned on (it was about 8:30pm when he finished) and all the other things that normally run, the load was about 25%. Turning on the only two-phase load, the oven, took it to about 75%. Without the oven and just lights, clothes dryer (gas so one-phase) and the whole-house ventilation fan it was about 40%."


Thought for sure you were going to get roasted by the electrical guru's here for calling your 240V oven "two-Phase"
It's technically not 2 phase, just single phase 240V or some may call it split phase.
Interestingly there is apparently 1 place in Philly which still has a true Two phase 90 degree power system in operation.

True, but...

This convention has never been my favorite.

Many countries, e.g. the British, have single phase 240V (220-240V, one hot, one grounded conductor). In the US, we have two 120 hots, equally out of phase with each other (180 degrees out of phase), yet we call that "single phase". Three hots equally out of phase with each other is "three phase". How is this logical?

I don't understand the logic, but I go with the convention or nobody would understand me, because most folks don't question the emperor's clothes.

Just an amateur,

2Pbfeet

 

[Mainsail]

General question then; The generator inputs two legs to the two top left breakers to power the house. So how do those two inputs become two 120v legs or phases (or whatever it's called)?

Is the panel set up so that every other breaker (up - down) in the panel is getting a different leg? So not left side of the panel getting one leg and the right the other leg, but every other from top to bottom? Every other breaker seems like the only way it could work.

 

[2Pbfeet]

General question then; The generator inputs two legs to the two top left breakers to power the house. So how do those two inputs become two 120v legs or phases (or whatever it's called)?

Is the panel set up so that every other breaker (up - down) in the panel is getting a different leg? So not left side of the panel getting one leg and the right the other leg, but every other from top to bottom? Every other breaker seems like the only way it could work.

Most new panels do the every other breaker up/down version, as it enables the wiring of wiring 240V circuits with a pair of breakers tied together. I have seen old panels that did left right, but then you had less than desirable outcomes like a fuse blowing on one of the two hots, but not the other. Ugly.

The generator sends the two 120V, 180 degree out of phase, electrical circuits one to each of the the two breakers, back feeding each of the two bus bars in your panel, making both 120V and 240V available to your circuits. Does that make sense?

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Mainsail]

Most new panels do the every other breaker up/down version, as it enables the wiring of wiring 240V circuits with a pair of breakers tied together. I have seen old panels that did left right, but then you had less than desirable outcomes like a fuse blowing on one of the two hots, but not the other. Ugly.

The generator sends the two 120V, 180 degree out of phase, electrical circuits one to each of the the two breakers, back feeding each of the two bus bars in your panel, making both 120V and 240V available to your circuits. Does that make sense?

All the best,

2Pbfeet

Yes, thanks! If I had thought about it more I would have realized left-to-right wouldn't work for the reason you mentioned. The old dryer circuit (the ones taped to OFF in the picture) are together, so that should have clued me in. EDIT to add: the surge protector too.

 

[Mullaney]

Yes, thanks! If I had thought about it more I would have realized left-to-right wouldn't work for the reason you mentioned. The old dryer circuit (the ones taped to OFF in the picture) are together, so that should have clued me in. EDIT to add: the surge protector too.

.
And a three phase panel is the same deal. 1,2,3 would equal 120+120+120 or three phase power. The breaker panel and how it is designed is how that works. Breakers for that are "clustered" into threes.

 

[Guyfang]

I am soooooooo happy I live someplace normal!

 

[2Pbfeet]

I am soooooooo happy I live someplace normal!

Ja! Alle Dinge sind regelmäßig!