mep 803 WHY?

[giaus]

have been looking at an 803 as back up to workshop. we have a 4k solar system, trying to stay off grid. not sure sunlight is enough for wood/metal/ tools will include full wood shop and two post lift for automotive work

the 803 is certainly a sturdy machine, however, looks like installed cost will be about $5K with ATS, pick up costs etc

we can get Generac or other in similar size range at about $3k with switching and warranty

the extra money is not a killer if there is reason to go mil spec

considerations so far, no storage deterioration with propane, gasoline/diesel both have storage problems

the three phase power is also irrelevant unless i get a larger lathe or some other item that could use it, quite unlikely

worst so far here in 30 years has been ten day no power due to ice storm

until the higher ranges, most of the home units are air cooled, which i am biased against

db ratings are similar and actually not relevant as i will be building an acoustic shed either one will be wired in to output of solar to take up slack when there is a low battery voltage shutdown with preemptive manual start when tool use anticipated

this is first run at the problem besides answers, please let me know what questions i am missing

TIA

 

[Chrispyny]

I can only say, i’d love to see a generac go 10,000 hours or more between overhauls. With synthetic oil after break in, and proper maintanance, i bet u could get 15k hours before a complete overhaul (new genset) .

 

[giaus]

i have also heard them referred to as generjunk
do not know how justified that appellation is
do not know that i will last to 10,000 hours myself, our expected lifetimes need to be considered also, although NOT rebuilding a generator is a good use of whatever time is left

 

[1800 Diesel]

Under the assumption you've already determined your KW needs, go with an MEP-003A for about half the price.

 

[GREENMV]

Please show me a water cooled, diesel, 10kw Generac generator for $3,000 My opinion on the 803 is better built. Gov't acquisition cost $10,700

 

[jaxbill]

Putting aside any particular brand, air cooled 3600 RPM LP/NG generators are not designed to last much more than 1,000 hours. Perhaps you get luckier with a Kohler but otherwise not even Cummins puts a Cummins Onan or Briggs engine into their air cooled generators these days. They are using off the shelf Chinese engines, believe it or not. Air cooled LP units are meant for emergency standby only and not off-grid. Your mileage can always vary and you could do much better than 1,000 hours but it's a gamble you can't predict up front. IMHO, these companies could make a more reliable air cooled generator that lasts longer but the market (i.e. residential standby customers who can't change their own oil) won't pay a premium.

Any machine can fail but I look the odds.

If you don't already have a large LP tank, that can cost as much as the generator. Then you have to worry about having enough surface area given the temperature, which goes back to the tank size/cost. Freezing temps give less usable LP as well. You also can't be absolutely sure you can use every gallon of LP in the tank. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of LP systems functioning perfectly. It's all about risk vs. cost vs. convenience.

A liquid cooled 1800 RPM LP/NG generator is around $10,000, improves the reliability, should give you more total lifetime hours, but still won't stack up to a good diesel engine. For $10K you can get a 20kW diesel from Aurora or Hardy.

For $6-7K, you can get a 11kW Kubota LowBoy 3600 RPM diesel that is supposed to be very reliable and quiet despite not being 1800 RPM.

 

[csheath]

I would never invest 5 grand in a 803. You can get a brand spanking new 1800 rpm Perkins powered gen with modern controls for not much more.

Propane is very inefficient and expensive from what I can tell. If you have other diesel equipment like a tractor then diesel makes more sense IMO. Easily stored and treated in 55 gallon drums.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I would not pay $5k for an MEP-803A, but I would argue that it is worth every penny of that money.

 

[Chrispyny]

I would not pay $5k for an MEP-803A, but I would argue that it is worth every penny of that money.

Well put sir.

 

[Light in the Dark]

But I will take that back I HAVE paid $5k (after all fees and what not) for an 803A last year. Past my normal gensets that I go through, I do offer strategic sourcing of units against customers wishes. I had a guy from ME come to me looking for his "ideal" machine, and I got it for him.

 

[DieselAddict]

If you are using the generator on a regular basis to power equipment in your shop then fuel rotation should not be a problem so long as you are not storing too much fuel. Even if you do store a lot there are procedures for dealing with it.

If your usage hours is modest, meaning a hundred or less hours per year then a propane generator is practical. If you assume about 2.5 gph of propane for a 22kw generac unit at half load then your fuel cost for those hundred hours is about $750 a year.

For a MEP803 running at full load is around 1.1 gph of diesel. Those hundred hours will cost about $275.

The other difference is lifespan. At 100 hours per year it's not likely you will live long enough to wear out a MEP. The propane unit will last 10 to 15 years then will need a repower.

The diesel unit will be more maintenance. If I were to guess I would say 10 to 20 hours a year versus 5 to 10 on the propane unit.

Good luck with your decision. Let us know how it goes.

 

[giaus]

the actual lowest selling price on the last auction we participated in was just over $3k plus buyers premium that unit had had the outer housing crushed most were in the 4 and up range
possible there is a seasonal effect on prices and i have heard my region is running higher than other parts of the country
i will check into the purchasing forums and see what i can learn there
you have nearly convinced me to go full out even if it does take the extra $
thank you for your replies

 

[Light in the Dark]

Yes the gensets in the southeast have spiked in price since the trio of hurricanes last year. A lot of folks effected, both here and in the island nations. I do feel like we may have taken a permanent turn in the marketplace though... prices will soften, but I think super deals on these are gone.

 

[DieselAddict]

Yes the gensets in the southeast have spiked in price since the trio of hurricanes last year. A lot of folks effected, both here and in the island nations. I do feel like we may have taken a permanent turn in the marketplace though... prices will soften, but I think super deals on these are gone.

I agree. The bargains in this market are gone. I've managed to have nice examples of several units that I had considered selling but after looking at the cost to buy the next round I'll most likely keep these to help friends and family.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Ive got a trio of 5s left, and a 10k (all on trailers). Just have to get my personal 5k operational, and I can rest for a bit on what I have now. I am not buying junk units, for the sake of having units. You can't even get 400hz machines for reasonable money anymore for parts! Just nuts.

 

[jaxbill]

I would never invest 5 grand in a 803. You can get a brand spanking new 1800 rpm Perkins powered gen with modern controls for not much more.

Where can you get a new unit for this price range?

 

[stugpanzer]

Ive got a trio of 5s left, and a 10k (all on trailers). Just have to get my personal 5k operational, and I can rest for a bit on what I have now. I am not buying junk units, for the sake of having units. You can't even get 400hz machines for reasonable money anymore for parts! Just nuts.

Yea...whats up with that? Think it's people not knowing what they are buying?

 

[csheath]

Where can you get a new unit for this price range?

Hardy Diesel Generator

http://www.hardydiesel.com/diesel-generators/perkins-generator-8-30-kw.html

 

[giaus]

part of my problem with that idea is the fact that they are air cooled units

i consider that a detail to be avoided

 

[giaus]

thanks, but i do want the larger capacity for high usage and reserveto keep power company off property