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MEP-803a : AirTex fuel pump substitution

Guyfang

Guyfang

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Guyfang said:
Haven't been looking in here for a few days. What were you researching, when you looked for FSCM 72850? The definition of FSCM is listed below. Its the gov way of giving every company that supply's parts to the Gov, a name, without using THE NAME. It in itself, can not lead you to parts for anything. Its simply the manufacturers, or suppliers name. Below the definition, is the FSCM and the name of the company that supplies the part.


c. FSCM (Column (3)). The Federal Supply Code for
Manufacturer (FSCM) is a 5-digit numeric code which is used to
identify the manufacturer, distributor, or Government agency, etc.,
that supplies the item.

72850 Eclipse Machine Division of Bendix Aviation Corp.
Click to expand...

Could be.

But notice Distribute, mentioned in the definition. Sometimes, one company starts the ball off, by making the pump. Another company designs a system, or sub system of the gen set. Like the Fuel system. They come up with a complete, from the tank to the IP fuel system. Rare is it that anything is designed just for this application. Its all off the shelf parts. Another company wins the contract to produce the gen set. Another company wins the contract to Supply the Gov with Repair parts to maintain the gen set over a certain time period. As you can see, there is room for lots of folks to get involved. So while the FSCM listed in the book is often the producer of the part, its not always so. Sometimes its the distributor. Not always the same. And the longer a system is around, the more likely its a distributor. A company goes belly up. A company is sold to another company. When ever you see, (in power generation) that the 30554 FSCM for a part listed in the book, don't even bother with looking up the 30554 FSCM. Its for the Department of Defense, Project Manager-Mobile Electric Power, (MEP) and it means that there is no current supplier, until the MEP puts out another contract for that part. MEP can, and will contract for a few parts, or a bunch, as they see fit. Thats why I keep parts TM's that go back 20 years, or more. If you are lucky, the FSCM for a part manufacture is in an old book.
 
S

smokem joe

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Ha! I'd have a hard time paying their price for anything! It would have to be a desperate situation. I can understand making a profit and staying in business as I run a business myself. Being 2 to 3 times higher than market price is completely different.
 
M

mlaxton

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m32825 said:
My 803 had a Facet 40193 primary fuel pump installed in it. I was having problems with it dragging down and shutting off after brief periods of load testing. I could not find the recommended AirTex E1074 anywhere. Replacement Facet pumps were over $200, that didn't seem like a good choice given that they replaced it with an AirTex pump. I found that AirTex has a technical support line and they do answer their phones. They recommended an E8131, I got one on Amazon along with a small fuel filter element.

I also ordered a fuel pressure gauge and used a t-fitting to put it in line with one of my injectors so I could see what was going on before and after the replacement.

View attachment 698764

Here's my original pump:

View attachment 698765

Here's the pressure with the pump running, but not the engine:

View attachment 698766

I had about 3.5 psi with fuel flowing through the filters and back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 5.5 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 0.5 psi to 3.5 psi. This is probably not good for the gauge, a damped one might be better, but seeing all the fluctuation was interesting, too. Seems like there's not much fuel pressure margin when the injector pump is running (low pressure close to zero), if things aren't working just right and there's a little more demand the injectors aren't getting what they need.

I swapped out the Facet for the AirTex:

View attachment 698767

Repeated pressure testing:

View attachment 698768

I had a bit less than 7 psi with fuel still flowing back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 9 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 3.5 psi to 6.5 psi.

The unit performed well under load testing. I gave it ten minutes at 50%, 85%, 95%, and 115% with no problems. I'm calling the replacement a tentative success, time will tell how it holds up.

-- Carl

P.S. One thing I learned from this effort: when there's a big hurricane headed your direction, no one complains about time spent working on your generator. Stay safe, guys!
Click to expand...
How did that mr gasket gauge hold up over time
 
Q

quartermeter

Member
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Location
Tennessee
csheath said:
I will bump this back to the top since the subject comes up in almost every troubleshooting thread we see.

From all I've read it seems the Facet 40193 pump was unreliable and very expensive. The Airtex E1074 seen on most newer units is not available nor are the specs.

I think the important thing to remember is the mechanical pump on the engine does the actual work. The supply pump just needs to maintain a steady supply of fuel to the mechanical pump.

My Airtex E1074 delivers 15 GPH and has a dead head pressure of 6 PSI. A better reference would be the operating pressure teed into the system but I didn't do that. For future reference I would like to see several known good working systems tested. If I get time before someone else does I will try to figure what fittings are needed to tee into the system for testing. Carl may already know this since he did it so a share would be helpful there. If we all know what the operating pressure and volume on good working units are we can all eliminate the fuel delivery pump when troubleshooting a problem unit.

What we know so far is Carl's unit ran okay with a pump delivering just under 7 PSI. My unit performs as it should with a pump that dead heads at 6 PSI so we can assume it makes less pressure in free flow in the system. My pump delivers 15 GPH which I believe to be the critical factor. The original Facet pump was rated to deliver 10 GPH and since it ran units okay when new I would assume that value to be adequate.

At the end of the day it looks like ANY 24 volt pump that can do 6 PSI at 10-15 GPH should run these units fine.
Click to expand...
Go to Summit Automotive and you can see the specs on the 1074Here’s a picture of it.
View attachment 813858View attachment 813858View attachment 813858View attachment 813858
 
Q

quartermeter

Member
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6
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Location
Tennessee
m32825 said:
My 803 had a Facet 40193 primary fuel pump installed in it. I was having problems with it dragging down and shutting off after brief periods of load testing. I could not find the recommended AirTex E1074 anywhere. Replacement Facet pumps were over $200, that didn't seem like a good choice given that they replaced it with an AirTex pump. I found that AirTex has a technical support line and they do answer their phones. They recommended an E8131, I got one on Amazon along with a small fuel filter element.

I also ordered a fuel pressure gauge and used a t-fitting to put it in line with one of my injectors so I could see what was going on before and after the replacement.

View attachment 698764

Here's my original pump:

View attachment 698765

Here's the pressure with the pump running, but not the engine:

View attachment 698766

I had about 3.5 psi with fuel flowing through the filters and back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 5.5 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 0.5 psi to 3.5 psi. This is probably not good for the gauge, a damped one might be better, but seeing all the fluctuation was interesting, too. Seems like there's not much fuel pressure margin when the injector pump is running (low pressure close to zero), if things aren't working just right and there's a little more demand the injectors aren't getting what they need.

I swapped out the Facet for the AirTex:

View attachment 698767

Repeated pressure testing:

View attachment 698768

I had a bit less than 7 psi with fuel still flowing back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 9 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 3.5 psi to 6.5 psi.

The unit performed well under load testing. I gave it ten minutes at 50%, 85%, 95%, and 115% with no problems. I'm calling the replacement a tentative success, time will tell how it holds up.

-- Carl

P.S. One thing I learned from this effort: when there's a big hurricane headed your direction, no one complains about time spent working on your generator. Stay safe, guys!
Click to expand...
Did the electrical connector on the e8131 fit the old connector on the
m32825 said:
My 803 had a Facet 40193 primary fuel pump installed in it. I was having problems with it dragging down and shutting off after brief periods of load testing. I could not find the recommended AirTex E1074 anywhere. Replacement Facet pumps were over $200, that didn't seem like a good choice given that they replaced it with an AirTex pump. I found that AirTex has a technical support line and they do answer their phones. They recommended an E8131, I got one on Amazon along with a small fuel filter element.

I also ordered a fuel pressure gauge and used a t-fitting to put it in line with one of my injectors so I could see what was going on before and after the replacement.

View attachment 698764

Here's my original pump:

View attachment 698765

Here's the pressure with the pump running, but not the engine:

View attachment 698766

I had about 3.5 psi with fuel flowing through the filters and back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 5.5 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 0.5 psi to 3.5 psi. This is probably not good for the gauge, a damped one might be better, but seeing all the fluctuation was interesting, too. Seems like there's not much fuel pressure margin when the injector pump is running (low pressure close to zero), if things aren't working just right and there's a little more demand the injectors aren't getting what they need.

I swapped out the Facet for the AirTex:

View attachment 698767

Repeated pressure testing:

View attachment 698768

I had a bit less than 7 psi with fuel still flowing back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 9 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 3.5 psi to 6.5 psi.

The unit performed well under load testing. I gave it ten minutes at 50%, 85%, 95%, and 115% with no problems. I'm calling the replacement a tentative success, time will tell how it holds up.

-- Carl

P.S. One thing I learned from this effort: when there's a big hurricane headed your direction, no one complains about time spent working on your generator. Stay safe, guys!
Click to expand...
did the electrical connector on the generator from the E1074 old pump fit the connector on the new e8131 fuel pump?
 
N

nortonl

New member
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m32825 said:
My 803 had a Facet 40193 primary fuel pump installed in it. I was having problems with it dragging down and shutting off after brief periods of load testing. I could not find the recommended AirTex E1074 anywhere. Replacement Facet pumps were over $200, that didn't seem like a good choice given that they replaced it with an AirTex pump. I found that AirTex has a technical support line and they do answer their phones. They recommended an E8131, I got one on Amazon along with a small fuel filter element.

I also ordered a fuel pressure gauge and used a t-fitting to put it in line with one of my injectors so I could see what was going on before and after the replacement.

View attachment 698764

Here's my original pump:

View attachment 698765

Here's the pressure with the pump running, but not the engine:

View attachment 698766

I had about 3.5 psi with fuel flowing through the filters and back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 5.5 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 0.5 psi to 3.5 psi. This is probably not good for the gauge, a damped one might be better, but seeing all the fluctuation was interesting, too. Seems like there's not much fuel pressure margin when the injector pump is running (low pressure close to zero), if things aren't working just right and there's a little more demand the injectors aren't getting what they need.

I swapped out the Facet for the AirTex:

View attachment 698767

Repeated pressure testing:

View attachment 698768

I had a bit less than 7 psi with fuel still flowing back to the fuel tank through the return line. When I pinched the return line the dead head pressure was 9 psi. I tried running the engine to see what effect it had on the pressure and found that the injector pump action causes the needle to fluctuate from 3.5 psi to 6.5 psi.

The unit performed well under load testing. I gave it ten minutes at 50%, 85%, 95%, and 115% with no problems. I'm calling the replacement a tentative success, time will tell how it holds up.

-- Carl

P.S. One thing I learned from this effort: when there's a big hurricane headed your direction, no one complains about time spent working on your generator. Stay safe, guys!
Click to expand...
Any updates for curently available replacement fuel pumps?
 
Light in the Dark

Light in the Dark

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Seems the Airtex E8131s arent available anymore online.. and I think the 8135 was a cross as well, which I am also having trouble finding past obvious Chicom generics.

If your primary pump is DOA, and you need to get a working solution NOW... you can take the rear fuel tank cover off the machine, and unhook the auxiliary fuel pump and reinstall in place of the primary pump.
 
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