MEP-803a IEC Receptacle - Stupid or GTG?

[f2504x4]

That drash unit I mentioned, me and the contractor took turns getting shocked in steady rain while troubleshooting a locked compressor in the ECU. You have to screw up pretty good to actually die from voltage as low as 240, but it's not impossible.

Haha - I don't know how it worked, but I was working in my detached garage years ago at my old house, and every time I grabbed something metal when it was raining or there was heavy condensation, I would get a pretty good shock. I called the company I paid to do my service upgrade on the house a few weeks before and he came out and called the power company to get it fixed "supposedly" (I was at work). Your story reminded me of that and made me laugh.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

Since you want to power so many different things why not just get an external rated breaker box and run short or long pigtails that you can put what every plug, breaker and wire combo you want on. Hard wire the generator to its breaker pannel and keep a ground rod with it.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If you are hooked up to the house and left bonded you have a double bond. the ground is now a paralleled neutral. in a perfect world the neutral should not carry any current, since we are not perfect the neutral carries the unbalanced load back to the source. that means there is current flowing in the ground (shock hazard) if you leave it unbonded and use it elsewhere, the head has no way to get the ground reference (floating neutral) under a load the voltages will fluctuate the heavier load will see a lower voltage and the lighter will see a higher. instead of 120 120 you might see 110 130 100 140 etc


Running your house in 3p mode house wont care 208 is perfectly serviceable for residential. there is a potential for head damage

Running 3p equipment in 1p mode. they might start they might run they will be destroyed. 3 phase motors running on single phase will destroy a motor.

before starting up, check, double check, then check again.

 

[Guyfang]

If you are hooked up to the house and left bonded you have a double bond. the ground is now a paralleled neutral. in a perfect world the neutral should not carry any current, since we are not perfect the neutral carries the unbalanced load back to the source. that means there is current flowing in the ground (shock hazard) if you leave it unbonded and use it elsewhere, the head has no way to get the ground reference (floating neutral) under a load the voltages will fluctuate the heavier load will see a lower voltage and the lighter will see a higher. instead of 120 120 you might see 110 130 100 140 etc


Running your house in 3p mode house wont care 208 is perfectly serviceable for residential. there is a potential for head damage

Running 3p equipment in 1p mode. they might start they might run (Well, I have never seen one start, but your first clue will be a buzzing, humming sound. It aint pretty.) they will be destroyed. 3 phase motors running on single phase will destroy a motor.

before starting up, check, double check, then check again. (ROGER, ROGER, ROGER!)

Open to read comments.

 

[f2504x4]

Why do you have to go introducing common sense into this? I just picked up a trailer a few days ago and got it set on last night...

Since you want to power so many different things why not just get an external rated breaker box and run short or long pigtails that you can put what every plug, breaker and wire combo you want on. Hard wire the generator to its breaker pannel and keep a ground rod with it.

 

[Coug]

Since you want to power so many different things why not just get an external rated breaker box and run short or long pigtails that you can put what every plug, breaker and wire combo you want on. Hard wire the generator to its breaker pannel and keep a ground rod with it.

Only issue I see with this is you'd have to do it as a 3 phase distribution/breaker panel. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you still have to double check that the selector switch is positioned properly before starting unit and connecting load. That's pretty much the only reason I didn't mention it as mixing 120/240 1 phase outlets in the same panel as 208 3 phase is asking for trouble, especially when the weather is bad, you're in a hurry or just being lazy. Having to physically change to a different adapter before you can plug in is a visual/physical reminder to change the output selector lever.

I suppose you could also wire in some type of idiot light on the 3rd leg on the 3 phase. If light is lit it's in 3 phase, if it isn't then it's single phase. Only issue is you don't find out until you hit the contactor in the gen panel and send out live power.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

Marinco series 15 cam loks are good to 150 amps. They are used throughout the world connecting electrical items. Or probably the larger series 16 cam loks. I believe it is now a requirement for most evacuation route gas stations to have these on there service panel for generator operation.


Orange colored 12w 4 wire
460R12W 60 Amp, 125/250 Volt Receptacle, 4W North America


460P12W 60 Amp 125/250 Volt Plug, 4W North America

I can't find my plug. I have it somewhere., I will post up pictures when I find it.

The above pin and sleeve is the 60 amp variation. It's big. The thing about pin and sleeve... they each have there color code for what power, and pin out. 1 phase, 3 phase, hertz, amperage etc...

What your thinking about? I've been there, done that.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

The other point to think about.
$$$$ The world of pin & sleeve connectors are not cheap. There are tons of variations. Sorted by phase, amperage, country etc.. The 1 constant is that your need a 4 wire connection to whatever you do. "Hot-Hot-Neutral-Ground" and 3 phase gets another Hot.

Pin & Sleeve Connectors | ElecDirect

Professional grade IEC 60309 Pin and Sleeve Devices. Pin and Sleeve Connectors and Plugs in 20, 30, 60, 100 Amp sizes.

www.elecdirect.com

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

Always think of electrical connections as a hose flowing water. Where is the power coming from and where is it going.

Generator making power, wires lug connected, the end of the wire would be the female connector, the contact is guarded from you touching it. The item which is receiving power, the male connection. So when your house is without power.. The generator is making power. The above receptacle I pictured is for mounting on the generator, and the plug would be male connector.

Generator making power, wires lug connected, the ends with female colored coded cam lok. Black, Red, White, and Green.

 

[nextalcupfan]

I just did this last weekend.
Panel is a Siemens Temporary Power Panel (rated for outdoor use) https://www.amazon.com/TL137US-Temp...siemens+power+sub+panel&qid=1594699512&sr=8-1

I will note that this setup is single/split-phase only, but just one of the Welder style plugs (NEMA 6-50R) can handle 99% of the rated output on the generator (6-50 can handle 50 Amps, Gen output is 52 Amps@240V).

I will also say that i'm NOT an electrician but I did talk to several before doing this.

In the last pic the sub-panel is going to the right and my house (ATS) is going left.

All together this was around $250 (4 Gauge SEOOW Cable is expensive...)

I still have 1 more thing to change, the 120V outlet in the 3rd pic (black) will be swapped for a NEMA 14-50R. Since that's 4 wire you can get/make adapters to go-to just about any plug type. Going to buy a few adapters and keep them in the accessories box, that way I should be able to power pretty much anything I want.

One more thing I would like to add here (this is just my $.02) you seem to be fixated on the 104 amp rating at 120V because you want to hook up your house. But your house isn't 120V (I see you live in the US like me) it's 240V. So in my honest opinion you could install a single NEMA 14-50R and power your house no problem.

(Ignore the bit at the start, I use the Remote start from my phone just because I could )(Also designed that myself)


Edit: I just did a quick search and found this: https://www.amazon.com/PW1224L3125C...70QYCHDBD14&psc=1&refRID=B3VV65W6570QYCHDBD14
If you only run the genset in 3-phase some of the time it would be a bit tricky to wire up the 240V circuits (you would need to use 3 phase Circuit breakers and wire the outlet only to phase 1 and phase 3) (L1 and L3 on the Generator).
OR you could run the generator in 3-phase all the time and use single phase Circuit Breakers for the appropriate circuits. (this seems a little more professional to me but you would want to balance the load so you don't pull too much from 1 leg)

 

[Scoobyshep]

I just did this last weekend.
Panel is a Siemens Temporary Power Panel (rated for outdoor use) https://www.amazon.com/TL137US-Temp...siemens+power+sub+panel&qid=1594699512&sr=8-1

I will note that this setup is single/split-phase only, but just one of the Welder style plugs (NEMA 6-50R) can handle 99% of the rated output on the generator (6-50 can handle 50 Amps, Gen output is 52 Amps@240V).

I will also say that i'm NOT an electrician but I did talk to several before doing this.

In the last pic the sub-panel is going to the right and my house (ATS) is going left.

All together this was around $250 (4 Gauge SEOOW Cable is expensive...)

I still have 1 more thing to change, the 120V outlet in the 3rd pic (black) will be swapped for a NEMA 14-50R. Since that's 4 wire you can get/make adapters to go-to just about any plug type. Going to buy a few adapters and keep them in the accessories box, that way I should be able to power pretty much anything I want.

One more thing I would like to add here (this is just my $.02) you seem to be fixated on the 104 amp rating at 120V because you want to hook up your house. But your house isn't 120V (I see you live in the US like me) it's 240V. So in my honest opinion you could install a single NEMA 14-50R and power your house no problem.

(Ignore the bit at the start, I use the Remote start from my phone just because I could )(Also designed that myself)
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Edit: I just did a quick search and found this: https://www.amazon.com/PW1224L3125C...70QYCHDBD14&psc=1&refRID=B3VV65W6570QYCHDBD14
If you only run the genset in 3-phase some of the time it would be a bit tricky to wire up the 240V circuits (you would need to use 3 phase Circuit breakers and wire the outlet only to phase 1 and phase 3) (L1 and L3 on the Generator).
OR you could run the generator in 3-phase all the time and use single phase Circuit Breakers for the appropriate circuits. (this seems a little more professional to me but you would want to balance the load so you don't pull too much from 1 leg)

You can run all day long in 3p mode and load 2 legs problem is over time this can damage the head (2 legs loaded and one no load)

240 vs 208 it isnt nearly as big of a deal that people make of it. Some things get grumpy on 208 but most things will be just fine.

 

[f2504x4]

Howdy fellow Ford truck guy.

Thanks for the suggestions, pictures and links- I've been round and round in my head on whether or not to mount a panel on the trailer, or generator such as you did. That panel fits really nice, and I may end up doing that anyway in addition to my plans just for convenience of it. I also liked the suggestion of doing the 3 phase panel as well- then just putting whatever plug on it I want.

Just to take a little step back and clarification- I'm not under the impression I can run my house at 104amp 1PH only- I think there may have been a little miscommunication there. I am however fixated on being able to run the generator in any setting / configuration with 100% support and safety. Even if I won't us it, I want whatever I do to be able to safely support full output at the receptacle.

From that, I finally made the decision to go mini Cam-Lok's. I just think this is the ticket for a lot of reasons.

1. I wanted a way to extend the lugs from inside the generator to outside for easy hookup. These do that, and up to 150amps.

2. I wanted something standard, that would be universally understood, without question to its intended purpose. Running 120/240 1PH through a dedicated 3PH plug, whether safe or not, concerned me.

3. I wanted something that would be clean, flush as possible. Why? Because I'm weird that way I guess.

4. I wanted to put something on my house, that if I sold it, could stay, would also be universally understood, and I wouldn't have to remove or change out. The Electrician can put full-size cams on there supporting the full 400amp service if somebody had a big enough generator, and I can use step-up adapters to hook directly into it. I myself have a large garage with 100amp service 400 feet from the house, a 60amp horse barn & tack room 200 feet from the house, etc.. So depending how bad I want to be glamping during an outage, I may even have to step up the generator.

5. Depending on where I park my trailer in the driveway, I may need to run 75ft to hook up to the house, so sizing up the wire for the distance, the mini cams can go to 2awg I believe- which is what I'll run.

6. I'll use a portable spiderbox for out in the field for my Step-Son's AV needs, or any use around the property for building projects where power needs aren't near an outlet.

7. For my buddy's machine shop. we're wiring a standard panel for all the 3PH equipment.


The biggest downside? It's going to cost me a fortune... but less so with mini cams.

The pin & sleeve receptacles are awesome. I bought a 100amp one, a 60amp one, and the mini-cams just so I could have hands-on to play with them. Even with the smaller 60amp P&S, the cap still wont open unless I nearly flush mount it on the generator. See pics attached.

The thing I struggled with was safety- What is reasonable and safe compared to other options and I see both options as being reasonably safe.

So that's where I'm at for now and thanks for all the input. I'll hopefully this week install the mini cams, and see if I can find somebody to make a steel accessory/toolbox in a custom size that matches the original military one big enough to store all the cables, adapters, and a portable breaker box.

Just want to say thanks for all, and I'm sure I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go.

Tony

 

[Scoobyshep]

Open to read comments.

When I was in school this was one of the lab experiments. Sometimes they start (the biggest factor is if the motor is already rolling). if its already at speed and a leg drops they can keep going until an overload kicks (Old solderpots and cold weather make for the forbidden smell)

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

1. I wanted a way to extend the lugs from inside the generator to outside for easy hookup. These do that, and up to 150amps.

3. I wanted something that would be clean, flush as possible. Why? Because I'm weird that way I guess.

I like where you're going with that. I think someone found a different match for that knock out you show in your images. But dang if I can find it on the site now. Hopefully they'll see this and pipe up.

 

[nextalcupfan]

If I had those requirements I would put a 1 phase Sub-Panel on one side (like I did) and a 3 Phase Sub-Panel on the other. Then label the crap out of everything.

2. I wanted something standard, that would be universally understood, without question to its intended purpose. Running 120/240 1PH through a dedicated 3PH plug, whether safe or not, concerned me.

That isn't quite what I meant, I was suggesting you wire a 1 phase plug into a 3 phase panel because NEMA standards have different style plugs for 1 phase and 3 phase.
You can even leave the genset in 3 phase all the time and have 208 single phase on the plug. As far as i'm aware they do this all the time on rooftop AC units. (They bring 3 phase into the unit and run the compressor on legs 1-2 and the blower/condenser fans on leg 2-3)

 

[Guyfang]

If I had those requirements I would put a 1 phase Sub-Panel on one side (like I did) and a 3 Phase Sub-Panel on the other. Then label the crap out of everything.



That isn't quite what I meant, I was suggesting you wire a 1 phase plug into a 3 phase panel because NEMA standards have different style plugs for 1 phase and 3 phase.
You can even leave the genset in 3 phase all the time and have 208 single phase on the plug. As far as i'm aware they do this all the time on rooftop AC units. (They bring 3 phase into the unit and run the compressor on legs 1-2 and the blower/condenser fans on leg 2-3)

Its what we do here in Germany.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

For heavy duty wiring cord...
You will want to go with W type cord.
6-4C 6 Gauge Multi-Conductor Type W Portable Power Cable is good for 87 amps.

 

[f2504x4]

Just as a follow-up for anybody who was following this- I finally had some time to move forward on the project. Excuse the rough machine work- the price (free) can't be beat and my buddy does anything I ask him to.

I'm really happy with the fit, have rubber booties to cap the ports when not in use. Used #2 THHN inside the generator. Next up, I picked up a neat little spider box that will sit on the fender of the trailer perfectly when not in use that I'm going to change the internal breakers and bus arrangement on. Pretty simple to go single phase and put all new receptacles into it with mini-cam input. Might do a new thread for that just in case anybody is interested.

One thing I learned in making the generator a little more civilianized in my process- Marinco Mini-Cam quality are hit/miss. Buy Cooper/Leviton if you go the route I did- it's worth the extra few bucks.

Military stuff is the coolest.