Mep-803a no crank

[novaman]

Im at my buddies off grid in hawaii for a few days and am trying to help him get his genny up. The dead crank works. I get both main and aux fuel pumps when in run with aux. looks good there but when i try to crank no crank. I have started it by putting the dead crank in normal posotion, Turning the main switch to run, then jumping the k2 contactor from the power in A1 to the solinoid energize wire x1. And pulling in the fuel solinoid by hand. The fuel solinoid hold position works fine. It also shuts down just fine from main switch. So k2 works just fine and has a good coil ground. just not recieving a +V signal to activate. Pull on the fuel solinoid gets its power from the same place from what i can see. The CR1 has left a poop stain on the board i unsoldered it and it has continuity in both directions (so its bad). From what i can see if that was bad (open) it should not dead crank either. I am going to replace it but is that the only problem? Also once it starts with all the jumps the alt doesnt charge the batteries. The unit definatly shows signs of salt air (hawaii) he has a mep-802 also and i swapped all the relays and S14 over from the other unit. No go. I un hooked every spade from the relay bases one at a time brushed it and put it back. Still no go. I am missing something and i cant figure out what. Or is it all that dang 1N5406 diode? I cant get a diode in time while im still visiting so i just want to make sure thats the only issue so when it shows up in the mail my buddy will be ready to rock. Im afraid of steeling the diode out of the mep-802a incase it blows that one too then he will have no gen and right now he needs at least the 5kw one cause he killed his brand new L16 crown batteries by running them way past dead on his solar system for 1 year. Whole nuther story. Oh yea i saw one fella say check power on S1 at terminals 5,7,3,1 i think and i didnt have power at all these points in run position only pin 3. Oh yea and S1 has had an update. Not sure if maybe the guy didnt pin it right. Also found a spade jumper sitting in the cabinet but not sure if it was left over from the S1 update or not. But S1 currently does have a spade jumper going from terminal 8 to 4 have to look dont remember if thats right. S1 also has a diode going from terminal 7 to 1 biased towards pin 1

 

[jamawieb]

I would say all your problems are with the s1 switch. You should have power at terminal 2,4,6,8 they are all common. 2 goes to CB1 which is the DC circuit breaker.
Preheat you should have power to number 1
Aux/prime run should have 3&5 hot
Prime should have 3 hot
Start should have 3 and 7 hot

Look at the switch to make sure its wired up correctly
1- 139C
2- 136D
3- 137N
4- 136C
5- 118B
6- 136B
7- 140A
8- 136A

 

[novaman]

I would say all your problems are with the s1 switch. You should have power at terminal 2,4,6,8 they are all common. 2 goes to CB1 which is the DC circuit breaker.
Preheat you should have power to number 1
Aux/prime run should have 3&5 hot
Prime should have 3 hot
Start should have 3 and 7 hot

Look at the switch to make sure its wired up correctly
1- 139C
2- 136D
3- 137N
4- 136C
5- 118B
6- 136B
7- 140A
8- 136A

Ya i double checked all that side of S1 had power cause they are all jumpered together with either external or internal connections. But on the output side of the switch i only have power at 3 in run mode. Everything else you listed was correct too on switch positions. Problem was pin B on k19 socket/base. It was pushed in so far that it didnt make contact to energise k19. As far as the battery charginging it looks like the alt regulator is bad somehow. I swaped regulators with the 802 and it works. Now it doesnt look like the fuel sending unit is working just pegs empty. Swapped gauges and no better. Ran it for 15ish mins and it didnt shut down on low fuel. From what i can see its about 1/4 full. Maybe that diode being bad allowed the solinoid transiants to burn up the sending module and maybe the alt regulator too. Now that i know whats what ill steel the diode from the 802 so when i leave this guy he is all set. And he just has to get replacement parts for the 802 that he wants to sell anyways. But he can take his time with puting it back together. He also bought an autostart from green mountain he wants me to install. Gotta look up the directions cause he lost em.... I dont want it to wetstack when he forgets to shut it off.

 

[Guyfang]

What kind of S1 do you have? There are three types. Has this gen set ever worked right? And I don't mean for a few minutes, for a n hour or two. Did someone " fix" before all this happened? If you have the first and second model S1, yes, there are at least two spade jumpers. If you onl have one, it's not going to work.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

I had simular issues. It was a diode. Test them on the back left of the electrical box. There really cheap on ebay you can get them in a 10 pack.

You got two aligator clips? Cut one out of the working unit and put clips on it. Use that to test the non working one. Keep the clips on the test part.

 

[novaman]

What kind of S1 do you have? There are three types. Has this gen set ever worked right? And I don't mean for a few minutes, for a n hour or two. Did someone " fix" before all this happened? If you have the first and second model S1, yes, there are at least two spade jumpers. If you onl have one, it's not going to work.

No its never worked since he got it from auction. Turn key everything fired up but no crank from S1.
It must be the 3rd model of S1 cause only one jumper and it has continuity at all 4 inlet pins that should be jumpered in the schematic 2,4 6,8. Also 24v at those points.
Switch sticker CS7400
L12443/001
AMS 06/06
The problem was k19 pin B was pushed in on the base/socket and not making contact with the relay. So that left over jumper must have been from the last switch. Ive had it up and running charging his batteries and running 50% load for a whole day now. Need to install that autostart kit now if anyone has the directions for that id greatly appreaciate it.

 

[Guyfang]

No, do not assume. Take a picture of the switch. The third style switch has no jumpers.

 

[novaman]

I had simular issues. It was a diode. Test them on the back left of the electrical box. There really cheap on ebay you can get them in a 10 pack.

You got two aligator clips? Cut one out of the working unit and put clips on it. Use that to test the non working one. Keep the clips on the test part.

The diode is definatly bad as i said in my first post but theres two ways a diode fails, open and closed. Open means it just blows and becomes on open circuit. Which would actually not allow dead crank or pumps to work. This is the ideal way they fail cause then u know its bad right away. Mine on the other hand failed closed so it lost its diode ability to prevent the reverse flow of electricity. So everything thing still works but its no longer protecting the upstream electronics from solinoid field calapsing transiants. These transiants destroyed the regulator in the alternator from what i can tell thats y it wasnt charging. The main problem was pin B on k19 was pushed into the base/socket so far that it wasnt making contact with the relay terminal. I didnt want to swap diode from the good unit cause as i said in the first post i didnt want to risk damaging it too and leaving him with no gen at all. Now that i know what the problem was ive stolen the diode from the good 5kw gen and installed it in the 10kw. Along with the alt regulator, fuel gauge and some bolts.
Now that he has his 10kw up and running he can fumble around with putting the 5kw back together as parts come in when im back on the mainland. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[novaman]

No, do not assume. Take a picture of the switch. The third style switch has no jumpers.

Where those numbers i gave you not enouph to identify? No jumpers huh.. there is definatly only one. Ill try to post a pic

Update

Cant upload pics from my phone even in desktop mode.
Jumper is from pin 4 to 8.

Update it must be the newest switch cause like i said it all works now. The tech must have put it in by mistake and it doesnt need it. But its there now and it all works as it should. But i do still need the directions for the gmg autostart

 

[kloppk]

novaman,

PM sent regarding the manual

 

[Guyfang]

Where those numbers i gave you not enouph to identify? No jumpers huh.. there is definatly only one. Ill try to post a pic

Update

Cant upload pics from my phone even in desktop mode.
Jumper is from pin 4 to 8.

Update it must be the newest switch cause like i said it all works now. The tech must have put it in by mistake and it doesnt need it. But its there now and it all works as it should. But i do still need the directions for the gmg autostart

I am laying flat on my back. walking is not an option at this time. I can not get to my computer, and my manuals are not on this note pad. So no, the numbers would not be enough.

 

[novaman]

I am laying flat on my back. walking is not an option at this time. I can not get to my computer, and my manuals are not on this note pad. So no, the numbers would not be enough.

Ive got 3 herniated disks in my therasic area so i know right where your at. Im hoping for a quick recovery brother. Take it easy

 

[Guyfang]

Thanks, take care partner!

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

You can look at S1 and S6 switch variations

 

[novaman]

Howdy,

You can look at S1 and S6 switch variations

From that feed i have version 2 blue square plastic.
How the **** is it working woth only one jumper then?

 

[kloppk]

From that feed i have version 2 blue square plastic.
How the **** is it working woth only one jumper then?

The C57400 (AKA version 2, blue square body plastic) switch only needs 1 jumper. It's black plastic covered and normally between terminals 4 & 8. It's part of the C57400 configuration.
Internally the switch terminals 2 & 6 are connected to either 4 or 8 so with the one jumper terminals 2,4,6,8 are all connected together.
I verified this on the two spare C57400's I have here.



There are some rugged version 3's available on the big auction site. Search 75902LV

 

[novaman]

The C57400 (AKA version 2, blue square body plastic) switch only needs 1 jumper. It's black plastic covered and normally between terminals 4 & 8. It's part of the C57400 configuration.
Internally the switch terminals 2 & 6 are connected to either 4 or 8 so with the one jumper terminals 2,4,6,8 are all connected together.
I verified this on the two spare C57400's I have here.

View attachment 742865View attachment 742864View attachment 742863

There are some rugged version 3's available on the big auction site. Search 75902LV

Thats her in an earlier poset to guyfang i said cs7400 but the sticker was wrinkled
Ya i have a C57400 with one jumper.
Thanks guys i got that manual downloaded you sent me too. When i get back to hq from sight seeing ill giver a go

Thanks again bud

 

[kloppk]

Glad to help

 

[boatingdave]

anyone have a k2 start relay?

 

[Guyfang]

Why don't you start a "Parts Wanted" thread? It will be seen by lots more people that this thread.