MEP 803A will not turn on?

[ECS]

I have a MEP 803A, 10kw gen set and it has been running good for about the last 90 hours, had 10 hours when I got it.

Today I go to activate the electricity and nothing, no power and that green light did not turn on.

I lift the switch to set the "AC circuit interrupter closed" and the green light does not come on and the power does not turn on.

I have this set up for 120/240 single phase.
The meter shows 60 hz, and the voltage meter shows 240 volts, as normal.
Normally I run it a few minutes and close the circuit and everything is fine.

I check continuity on the switch (when it was not running) and the switch seems to be fine.

So I'm thinking it's some relay or fuse or something, but I am not sure where to look next. Should I test voltage somewhere to narrow the issue down?

Any help on where to look next would be appreciated.

 

[Hard Head]

Oh boy! Check K1. You will need to take the top off as it is located behind the panel where the resistors are located. Square black box. check continuity back to the interrupter switch. While you are back there check the wiring that rub on the angled aluminum sides for damage.

 

[Hard Head]

Also time to change out the break in oil if you now have 100 hours on the unit

 

[Light in the Dark]

Are you still getting power at the convenience outlets, or are they DOA too?

 

[Light in the Dark]

Oh and a tip on the top panel... its going to be siliconed in place along all 4 edges, as well as along the top of the dividing wall (the rear of the operator control box). You should be OK in Florida, but if you wonder why its not just easily popping off...

I had to take the **** thing off an 803 here in 0 degree weather two days ago (one was readied for sale and almost out the door... was going to position it behind my garage for use in this storm we are enduring now, and found a high pressure pinhole leak in the water separator... can only get it off with the top and side metal off).

 

[Light in the Dark]

Do you have the manuals for the set? If so, have you read them at all?

 

[ECS]

Thanks, K1 and pull the top off. I'm in FL but it's 36 out there this morning. There is no power at the outlets, they are DOA also. I downloaded the manuals this morning.

 

[Light in the Dark]

So silly question... have you shut the set down, and tried to restart it, holding the start switch much longer? I wonder if maybe when you started it, you didn't let the set field flash itself?

1–12.8.2 Field Flash. When the engine reaches sufficient speed (900 rpm), the magnetic pickup causes a set of contactsin the crank disconnect switch to open and deenergize the crank disconnect relay. A set of contacts in the crank disconnectrelay then closes and energizes the Field Flash circuit through closed contacts of the field flash relay (refer toFIGURE 1-9). This provides current to the AC generator exciter field windings which sets up an electromagnetic field.The field current is necessary for the set to generate sufficient voltage for the voltage regulator (refer to FIGURE 1-11)to begin controlling the output voltage of the generator set. The Field Flash circuit is maintained until the MASTERSWITCH is released from the START position.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Are any of the 'idiot lights' on the left hand panel on?

 

[Hard Head]

If he is really seeing 240 on the meter and everything is running along ok, and the only thing wrong is he cannot energize K1 to close the contacts there may be a corrosion issue on the contacts, a loose contact, a severed wire ( Rodent bedding), or a bad switch or K1. Other electrical loving pests such as bees, wasps, spiders and ants get into these sets and screw them up. I have also found all kinds of electrical issues with nuts in the back and front and relay keepers that have dropped in the case and vibrated around doing damage. I would replace all the non captive nuts with rivnuts while the top is off. It makes is allot easier to disassemble and reassemble in the future. Look really good for things that should not be there and check terminal screws! I also use a stall mat to set the unit on to reduce vibration when installed on a concrete pad. I would help to see a video of what is happening. I have only had one bad K1 and the unit had the same symptoms you are having. I got 4 extra relay keepers in one unit before that had fallen off the relays and I guess were just replaced without looking for the ones that fell off. Good luck

 

[Guyfang]

If he is really seeing 240 on the meter and everything is running along ok, and the only thing wrong is he cannot energize K1 to close the contacts there may be a corrosion issue on the contacts, a loose contact, a severed wire ( Rodent bedding), or a bad switch or K1. Other electrical loving pests such as bees, wasps, spiders and ants get into these sets and screw them up. I have also found all kinds of electrical issues with nuts in the back and front and relay keepers that have dropped in the case and vibrated around doing damage. I would replace all the non captive nuts with rivnuts while the top is off. It makes is allot easier to disassemble and reassemble in the future. Look really good for things that should not be there and check terminal screws! I also use a stall mat to set the unit on to reduce vibration when installed on a concrete pad. I would help to see a video of what is happening. I have only had one bad K1 and the unit had the same symptoms you are having. I got 4 extra relay keepers in one unit before that had fallen off the relays and I guess were just replaced without looking for the ones that fell off. Good luck

Going to have to kinda disagree here. I think we are not getting all the info, go back to post #7. The gentleman wrote that the outlets are also dead. The outlets have nothing to do with K1. The outlets are controlled through the CB3. He also stated in post #1, that the hertz meter was working, as well as the AC volt meter. So, like Hard Head wrote, you need to check out K1. First thing to do is see if CB3 is tripped. The gen set is making power, but not letting it get out. There are two separate problems here. The outlets should be easy, so get it out of the way. And then maybe you can at least use the outlets.

Now, K1. Hard Head is correct. Pull the top, check pin X, (wire # 150B) and pin Y, (wire # 152D) for 24 volts, when you push S5 into the up position. No voltage, then work backward through the circuit. Voltage? then the problem probably is the K1.

LITD has asked a lot of questions, we need some more of the answers. Then its easier to troubleshoot.

 

[Hard Head]

Hi Guyfang, I missed the post that the outlets were DOA. My Bad! Sometimes I don't refresh the page before responding. I am not sure what you have seen for failure rates but I looked at 58 803's thru the shop in the last 3 years and I have only had one K1 that needed to be replaced and 12 that the engines were screwed due to water getting in the exhaust. 4 of them I fixed and the others 8 I salvaged for parts.

 

[ECS]

Going to have to kinda disagree here. I think we are not getting all the info, go back to post #7. The gentleman wrote that the outlets are also dead. The outlets have nothing to do with K1. The outlets are controlled through the CB3. He also stated in post #1, that the hertz meter was working, as well as the AC volt meter. So, like Hard Head wrote, you need to check out K1. First thing to do is see if CB3 is tripped. The gen set is making power, but not letting it get out. There are two separate problems here. The outlets should be easy, so get it out of the way. And then maybe you can at least use the outlets.

Now, K1. Hard Head is correct. Pull the top, check pin X, (wire # 150B) and pin Y, (wire # 152D) for 24 volts, when you push S5 into the up position. No voltage, then work backward through the circuit. Voltage? then the problem probably is the K1.

LITD has asked a lot of questions, we need some more of the answers. Then its easier to troubleshoot.

Thanks, I'll check this today, and re-test the outlets and see if I can post a video somewhere. The meter does say 240 volts and the Hz is around 60.

 

[ECS]

Fixed .. Thanks again!

I held the "start" position longer than usual for a few times and it reset. Everything is working as it should now.

Is the K1 part on the 813A (400hz) the same part as on the 803A? It seems most of the parts on the two units are the same.

 

[Guyfang]

Hi Guyfang, I missed the post that the outlets were DOA. My Bad! Sometimes I don't refresh the page before responding. I am not sure what you have seen for failure rates but I looked at 58 803's thru the shop in the last 3 years and I have only had one K1 that needed to be replaced and 12 that the engines were screwed due to water getting in the exhaust. 4 of them I fixed and the others 8 I salvaged for parts.

Hard Head,

On the whole, the K1 is very robust. BUT, and there is always a but, I often found them "sticky", they would not always, on the first try, close. When it happens, its almost 100% chance, that water got into the K1 at some point in time and corroded things. That is about the only problem the K1 has. If you look at every gen set that has this type K1, from the MEP-004A, to the MEP-806A, the K1 has the water problem, and I think its when the troops wash the sets with high pressure hoses. A QA/QC guy down range once told me, that's how they get the gen sets back to the states, when the Health and Bugs inspection finds bugs in the sets. High pressure washing. I am sure that doesn't help with the water in the engine problem, also.

When I first started contracting, I found lots of engines that needed to have rings or pistons put in them. The Army is all about "FAST". If you got to pull an engine, might as well change it. Its FAST.

If my wife ever tosses me out, I may come looking for a job! 58 gen sets? Fun without end!!

 

[Guyfang]

Fixed .. Thanks again!

I held the "start" position longer than usual for a few times and it reset. Everything is working as it should now.

Is the K1 part on the 813A (400hz) the same part as on the 803A? It seems most of the parts on the two units are the same.

Good to go!

Yes, K1 is the same. Look into the -24P manual, use the UOC to see what is, and what isn't. If you dont know what the UOC is, say something. The only stupid question, is the one NOT asked.

 

[jamawieb]

Hi Guyfang, I missed the post that the outlets were DOA. My Bad! Sometimes I don't refresh the page before responding. I am not sure what you have seen for failure rates but I looked at 58 803's thru the shop in the last 3 years and I have only had one K1 that needed to be replaced and 12 that the engines were screwed due to water getting in the exhaust. 4 of them I fixed and the others 8 I salvaged for parts.

Whoa that's a large number of engine problems. I've worked on well over 200 of these generators and only had 6 with engine damage due to water and 1 due to the rear main seal failing. Are you buying a lot of units with the flaps missing? I try to avoid those but I have bought a couple that I got lucky on, that didn't need major work.

 

[Guyfang]

Might also have something to do with where the set originated from. Rain is the norm here in Germany. I have seen these sets pile up, waiting for enough of them to come in before shippin. Sometimes they pile up for 3-4 months. I have a 15 gal. Drum out side my garage. Since end of Oct. the rain has filled it up to the top. We get some rain. Units are not covered up and are left outside. This is probably not a problem with sets from Yuma, California.

 

[Light in the Dark]

So to delve further... if this chap didn't have the field flashed properly, why were his hz and voltage gauges registering?

 

[myridge]

Mine functions the same way! I get 240 Volts, 60 Herz and my AC interrupter is sticky where sometimes it won't light up Green. It's much better now that I exercise it once every two weeks for 15-30min. But previously it would have about a 50% success rate.