Metal Shavings

[JKELLS]

I was just thinking. and I have had oil problems with this thing for a while. I wonder if the oil pump would cause the metal shavings. I am gonna dump the oil and pull the oil pan and look for something in there. but I was wondering if the pump is causing all this problem (metal shavings in the oil filter canisters.

 

[rtk]

Could be anything , lots of things could cause metal shavings in the oil . If you have oil problems it could be scuffed/cylinder liners or crankshaft bearings . How is your oil pressure ? have you cut open your oil filter ? it could give you a hint , bottom line is you will have some disassembly going forward . As far as your oil pump causing the metal in the oil , possible but not likely IMHO . good luck , bob k

 

[URSATDX]

A detailed oil analysis might prove very useful.
Any metals found in the sample are easily identified and can help to
determine their origination and with a diagnosis.
Blackstone Labs charges $28.00.
They'll send you the kit for free.

 

[cattlerepairman]

My condolences. That is not good news. I agree - an oil test, including the shavings, would likely give you the best pointer. At least, with the oil pan off, you know what to look for, then. I also do not think that the oil pump itself is the primary cause of shavings. It sits behind a "showerhead" intake pipe and the likelihood that it "eats" something that causes it to disintegrate is low. But...never say never....

With the oil pan off at least you can inspect the rods and mains. You can do a rebuild/refresh in-frame if needed. Whichever, it is $$$ and time...

On the positive note, now is the time to think upgraded rod bolts, LDS pistons...LDS rocker arms..LDS injection pump....just sayin'......

 

[dmetalmiki]

An oil test is the only way to go. An initial assessment could be made with the oil pan removed and checking to see if the metal is 'shavings' type soft or hard shrapnel remnants.
'Soft' Alloy? could come from rod bearings and or spacers. Hard is serious, Liners?. Rport when you have the test results.
You did not say if the 'amount' was just a few small bits. Large chunks. Or, a sludgy grey mixture?. If the latter for example, a good clean, a thorough flushing and oil replacement could suffice. >my 1/2 pennyworth<.

 

[Jericho]

A spectrometric oil analysis is only as good as the base line data, anybody have the wear metals formulation for a multifuel ? I could be wrong but i don't remember seeing one in the tech data, Judging by the age I doubt the Army ever paid the manufacturer for one , If there isn't one your no better off with shavings than to do a ATD Analytical Tear Down. that and a micrometer will tell you the same thing. To be of use you would need to know the wear metals, Bearing metal contents, crank, metallurgy along with valve wear guides , Valve stems, cam, timing chain , gears and any other rotateing or receptor metallurgy. Then you need an established baseline to base your wear trends on, IF your oil had high time on it and had never been thoroughly flushed you would carry over high wear metal trends that are inaccurate. Only way to establish a base line is to drain and flush thoroughly and then accumulate some specified time . That's assuming you have standard wear metal trends to use as a comparison . Shavings in the pan says >I have a problem , I did Spectrometric Oil analysis for twenty years, it can be a useful tool! Large truck users use it , all came from its use in Aircraft Engines BUt they have thousands of sample comparisons and models based on specific engines and uses. Unless some one has established that DATA for a multi fuel , comparison to a Cat diesel is useless. Love SOAP , but wouldn't spend 20$ to have a general report run, Shavings say I am sick ! good luck keep us posted

 

[dmetalmiki]

there you go. So now Te'k it to bits, (sump), Poke a finger in the 'mess'. What's on your finger?. Assessment made. (But) Be prepared to explore further. (or not).

 

[frank8003]

It would be good to state "the problems"

"I was just thinking. and I have had oil problems with this thing for a while."

Change the oil after draining all of whatever is in there.
It is only five gallons and the filters.
Do not put that in the fuel tank, can't get the soot out of it.

Run it 20 hours and do it again.
Then say what you found.
I'll wait here.

 

[Jericho]

Your spot on miki

 

[URSATDX]

A spectrometric oil analysis is only as good as the base line data, anybody have the wear metals formulation for a multifuel ? I could be wrong but i don't remember seeing one in the tech data, Judging by the age I doubt the Army ever paid the manufacturer for one , If there isn't one your no better off with shavings than to do a ATD Analytical Tear Down. that and a micrometer will tell you the same thing. To be of use you would need to know the wear metals, Bearing metal contents, crank, metallurgy along with valve wear guides , Valve stems, cam, timing chain , gears and any other rotateing or receptor metallurgy. Then you need an established baseline to base your wear trends on, IF your oil had high time on it and had never been thoroughly flushed you would carry over high wear metal trends that are inaccurate. Only way to establish a base line is to drain and flush thoroughly and then accumulate some specified time . That's assuming you have standard wear metal trends to use as a comparison . Shavings in the pan says >I have a problem , I did Spectrometric Oil analysis for twenty years, it can be a useful tool! Large truck users use it , all came from its use in Aircraft Engines BUt they have thousands of sample comparisons and models based on specific engines and uses. Unless some one has established that DATA for a multi fuel , comparison to a Cat diesel is useless. Love SOAP , but wouldn't spend 20$ to have a general report run, Shavings say I am sick ! good luck keep us posted

If you were to examine the UOA might you be able to interpret and give some insight?

 

[Jericho]

The soap results would say. Mild steel FE cast iron , And perhaps some copper CU and Babit ( mains) ( big end little end for miki ) precursors Clevite . If it was used in the rings for example. All General wear metals present in any engine of that era. Problem is with out established limits. Normal. Trending , high wear , it’s useless . modern engines actually have specific metals worked in to the scheme of soap just to identify wear area The engine is simple really. It has to be a rotateing or abraded surface to produce wear metal. Best solution is to pull the pan. Visually inspect the rotating assy and bearings. Do a quick lateral lash check on crank for wear. If in doubt plasti gage the caps. Do all of them. !! Look for visible interference. Inspect the valve train carefully. Look for wear. Measure check for trueness Don’t for get ancillary sources of contamination. Air brake compresssor ! Gets returns lube to engine ! Gets a lot of use. Isn’t particularly well lubed ! I wouldn’t pull the heads. If you can’t find an upper valve train defect. I would leave the heads. Observe piston bores individually look for scuff gouges. Broken rings. May get lucky and find the culprit straight away

 

[Jericho]

Don’t for get timing assy oil pump ect

 

[M543A2]

Easy check for the type of metal is to open up the oil filters and check the media for particles trapped there as well as checking the drained oil by running a magnet in and over the particles. If they adhere to the magnet then they are steel, etc of ferrous origin. If they do not adhere then they are non-ferrous like babbit, copper, etc. from bearings.

 

[M543A2]

I can add also that I bought a used centrifuge to spin out particles in the oil we drain. They can be found on Ebay for around $50. I observe the stratification of the result of the spinning in the bottom of the tubes and then remove the residue from the plastic test tube and check it both with a magnet and under a microscope. One can learn a lot with these simple tests. Just be sure you balance the samples in the plastic centrifuge tubes across from each other in the spin head so the unit does not go nuts with vibration while spinning. The heavier metals will be spun to the bottom of the tube first, then stratification of layers of lighter materials will be seen above the lower heavy metal layers.

 

[frank8003]

Never said what flavor filters, Where it came from or if it was ridden hard and put away wet. No history seen.
Change the oil then start analyzing stuff after hours of use. One day it will fail, but probably not this year. How many hours a year, what use in time and miles?

 

[Jericho]

Good observations Frank ! I probably put in the region of 50 hours a year on mine . Sample interval on a average Fighter is 10 hours , ten hours of flight time pulling gs and twisting into every contortion known

 

[gimpyrobb]

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?175845-Terrible-sound

 

[frank8003]

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?175845-Terrible-sound

Doublepath to where?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Frank, that is a link to his original thread.

The folks in this thread were asking questions about the history of his motor(so), I posted a link to the history of his motor.

 

[frank8003]

Frank, that is a link to his original thread.

The folks in this thread were asking questions about the history of his motor(so), I posted a link to the history of his motor.

Thanks, That means I reading a doubleposter of like and continuous problems, which led to my confusion. Terrible sound from 01302018 leads to new post of shavings on 03062018