Mini-Camper Conversion-Electrical

[PeeWeeQ]

Fellow MV owners,

I'm going to start an apprenticeship as a Lineman soon. I'll be doing line construction and will be on the road quite a bit. Instead of paying $250-$350/per week for a hotel/motel rooms, I'm considering converting the back of my M1009 into a sleeping/camping area. Since I'm not 100% on the ins and outs of the 24V system, I'm hoping bouncing these ideas off of my esteemed fellow CUCV owners here can help me out, correct me, and give advice where needed.

Summer time is not a big deal, current draw-wise. I live in WI, so, I'd like to run a 600W space heater in the winter and possibly a block heater for a couple of hours before I have to start the beast in the morning. I don't need a ton of light and I could see charging a phone, running a laptop, running a microwave, and possibly a hot plate (OBVIOUSLY, not all at the same time!) I've been in the infantry and combat engineers for almost 20 years, so, I don't feel the need to have all the comforts of home--I'm used to 'austere' environments. I might even just camp out in a tent or hammock in the summer.

All that said, here goes....Just a caveat: I have read a few threads here about inverters and deep cycle batteries, but they didn't answer ALL of my questions. Again, here goes...

I like to keep things simple and modify as little as possible. My first thought is to replace one of the batteries in the engine compartment with a deep cycle battery, keeping the system 24V throughout and running a 24V inverter off of the radio bus in the back. Here's what I think the problem(s) would be with this setup: 1.) The deep cycle battery wouldn't offer enough cold-cranking amps to assist with starting and it may damage the deep cycle battery or shorten its life-span. 2.) Deep cycle battery would draw down the other battery when in use for the inverter. 3.) Deep cycle battery would be to far from the bus bar and inverter in the back to work (too much impedance via the wires).

Another Idea is to just add a third and possibly fourth (deep cycle) battery to the back, near where the inverter would be installed. The problems I see or questions I have with this setup are: 1.) Hydrogen leakage (I've heard this is minimal) 2.)Can I or should I convert the radio bus in the back to 12V? If I did that, how? Just run wires from one of the batteries in the engine compartment? 3.) Would installing a battery(ies) in the back over-tax the alternator(s)?

I've found several 2500-3500W 24V and 12V inverters for under $200. I've found all kinds of deep cycle batteries that are anywhere from 35-85 amp-hours for varying prices. I've found good 600W space heaters and hot plates. I have a 120v microwave, but, I haven't looked at 12v DC microwaves yet. Would a 12V mic be better?

Anyway, lots of questions here and any ideas, help, or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Thanks! Looking forward to your responses!

PeeWeeQ

 

[tennmogger]

You should do some quick math first. Consider that 600 watts of space heater, run at 24 v is 25 amps continuous. A 1200 Watt microwave at 24v is 50 amps. Those numbers are straight math. Real world with conversion/inverters and loss is maybe 80% efficiency, at best. A small generator might be a better investment.

You might find a "12v" microwave, as advertised for truckers, use but those have the inverter built in, and are costly. Best to use a 115 v microwave and external inverter that can be used for other things too. Of course there are smaller microwaves but microwavable food often has warning labels "do not cook in less than 1200 W microwave" (due to not getting done). I eat enough microwave food to be an expert LOL.

Personally, I would not try to put camper loads on the truck starting batteries. If they get run down you can't start the truck (plus, starting batteries are wrong type to deep discharge). Separate battery in the back (and a deep discharge type) would be the way to go. Todays sealed batteries could be in the back with you with no issues, IMHO.

Bob

 

[Skinny]

I have been thinking a lot about something like this for my M1031. Example would be running a fridge, microwave, etc.

I have come to the conclusion as to not screw with a good thing. I am keeping my trucks electrical system isolated. I am going to put a shore power plug to run all of my trucks cold start heaters and any other accessories. I have a small honda inverter generator which fits the bill.

If I had a slightly larger budget, I would add a diesel fired hot water system to preheat the engine and heat the cab while sleeping in it. A chest cooler like Whynter or ARB wouldn't drain the batteries overnight so that isn't a concern.

 

[PsycoBob]

CUCV's have enough issues starting, unless everything's new/clean/perfect. I'd not put any loads on the stock batteries I didn't need to.

I'll try to answer your questions before I get sideways. A block heater shouldn't be run off an inverter from the vehicles batteries. If you're really paranoid about cold-starts, add a manual glow-plug button & replace the glow plugs before winter. NEVER use ether/starting-fluid on a CUCV without disabling glow plugs.

Add some stick-on insulation mat to the roof to keep the chill/heat out. eBay LED strip-lights can be run off the second (12-24v) battery for half of forever without killing it.

Phone charging off the second (12-24v) battery is easy enough- an isolated ground lighter socket (all plastic shell, like the flip-cover waterproof ones) with a matching charger. Most phones & cords won't have an issue- put 1A fuses on both leads to the socket if you're worried.

A 2-burner propane coleman stove with a 20# tank will heat food easily enough. A catalytic space heater will make enough heat to keep you from freezing solid. I'd not use electric heat or a microwave without shore power to plug into. A dinky 600w inverter can be run off an APC 1500VA (950w) UPS, direct from 24v. You can find them free sometimes, if you ask around. A serial cable & their free software on a laptop will disable all the beeping alarms.

If you convert the truck to 12v, you can use the second (now unused) alternator to seperately charge a 12v 'house' battery.

I'd add a few coats of a good bediner to the back before camping in it a lot. I've heard a lot of good stuff about Monstaliner.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I've found several 2500-3500W 24V and 12V inverters for under $200.

From experience: An inverter in that size range for that price is going to last you a few weeks of real use. In other words, it will be junk.



I used to do testing for a major company, and we had test vans we used. We usually ran 2-3 laptops, sometimes as many as 5. Those were the ONLY things running on the inverters. We had 3000 watt inverters at first. Good ones. Expensive ones. As in high side of $500 bucks. Professionally installed with #1 cable feeding them. Everything top of the line.

They lasted about a year and half. We had a few that were rated at 4500 watts - they held up. Still running last I heard.

That's just 4-5 laptops, at most, and running maybe 5-6 hours per day. The laptop power supplies were 90 watts each, so that's a max load of 450 watts.

Yeah, we had to go to TEN TIMES the actual load to get any decent life out of them.

Did I mention these were expensive inverters?

Anything you can get for two hundred bucks is going to be junk, and you'll be doing well to get a season out of it.

 

[PsycoBob]

MarcusOReallyus is right- a 3kw inverter for that price is either stolen or a fire hazard.

If you're paying less than a grand for a 3kw inverter, it's either a nasty filtered square-wave or a chinese POS 'true-sine' model with a 20/20 warranty. A 1kw true-sine major-name inverter will run $650 & it'd last forever running 450w of laptops.

The trick is, buy a major-name inverter if you need 24/7/365 reliability. If you can't find ads in the back if "Home Power Magazine" from 10 years ago & today with the company name, don't expect it to survive. Off-grid people get real hostile if an inverter craps out. My M109's got an old Mastervolt Mass-combi 3kw true-sine inverter/charger in the back. Original price: $3800. I got it at a show for $25, with a pair of bad relays.

Unless the microwave is an inverter model (variable output power, rather than switching on/off every few seconds to make '50%' power) it might not like cheap square-wave or mod-sine inverters. 'RV' models might tolerate this better. A true-sine major-name inverter big enough for a 1200w nuker may run $1k or more. I'd skip it.

Most of the inverter failures I've had were fan related. Name-brand fans like Sunon or Papst make good replacements. I ran a cheap 700w mod-sine inverter for a 600w coffee machine 2x daily for several years, until one of the fans failed & the other was on it's last legs. Probably only a thousand hours on it- some of my (major name) computer fans are getting close to 60k hours. That Mastervolt's got 3 Papst fans tucked away. I've only stressed it enough to get them to kick on with a 2kw load.

 

[southdave]

I would look around for a small 4 season and pul it with 1009. there are couple cool ones out there. Or there are some guys that have the blazer camper on this site

 

[southdave]

Like this..
Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NhfKsygHeas/Tn-rgNa5MmI/AAAAAAAADgQ/8o45NjuU6TY/s1600/feat10blazer_tent_03.jpg

Or this, I think these are cool little unit mount a generator on the tongue or plug it in.. might have issues with dumping the tanks in Wi ect..
http://www.casitatraeveltrailers.com/whyown.html

 

[MakersTeleMark]

I'd throw a third sealed battery in the back, a 80-100w solar panel up top, and tie it all into your truck electrical with a charging relay. You will want to add some led's for interior lighting, some reflectix panels to cover the windows, and pay special attention to venting.

Your 120 appliances draw incredibly high amps. I'd keep it simple with a neat chuck kit and a bulk propane tank.

Take a look at a Wave 3 heater.

I have a xantrex pure sine wave inverter that I am happy with. Pricey though.

 

[tourus]

by the sound of what you want to do I think I would get a small camper tow behind pop-up or something you could tow behind a 1009. find a good used one or something. or if you are stuck on useing a m/v as a home on the road look into using a 1010 box or a 1031 box just more room and a 1010 has alot of insulation aready in it for your heat and cool problem.

 

[PeeWeeQ]

Wow, lots of info here. Thanks for the head's up on the inverters. It seems like hit and miss with stuff like that; sometimes they crap out, sometimes you find a diamond in the roufh. What I am getting is that the inverter idea is not a good one unless I'm willing to spend a pretty penny. I can see spending the dough, but it's harder to sell the expenditure to my wife (she already hates the CUCV--it's not a pretty thing--to her). The way I see it, it's better to spend $1k for an inverter than $300/ week for hotels. I know I sound cheap, but, We have 4 kids and a house on MY income (its important to us that she stay home with the kids instead of having them raised in daycare).

I digress....I've thought about the trailer, but, don't really want to have to tow anything around with me. I've also considered putting a generator on a tongue platform too. I worry about the noise, but, I've slept with much louder 3K military generators running pretty close. How fuel efficient are they?

I want to modify the electical system as little as possible. Not at all, preferably.

What about a small generator to charge a couple deep-cycle batteries and to run a heater? How big would I have to have? Are the Harbor Freight Predators any good? I wouldn't be opposed to a propane camp stove or heater either, but, how would I vent them?

I really want to just be able to wake up in the AM, eat a little breakfast, get dressed, and go to work. Crikey, if I'm not gonna be able to cook in the thing in the winter, I'll just eat fruit and tuna for breakfast. No worries...At any rate, thank you, all and keep the ideas coming...

I remember an old E-6 that converted an M101 into a little camper for annual training....You never knew from the outside....But, then I'm back to towing something...

 

[PeeWeeQ]

This guy has some cool ideas too, but, I still value the opinions here more than anything....

Cheaprvliving.com

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I think a small generator is a better way to go. As to Harbor Freight.... I don't waste my money on them any more. I have had too many tools break as soon as I used them.

They come to my nearby community center twice a year with a big sale (under the name, Cummins Tools. Same company.)

I don't even bother to go look anymore. Anything more complicated than a crowbar is going to be junk, and the crowbar is questionable.

Do the math on the hotel bills. Figure how long you'll be on the road. Then show the numbers to the wife.

One thing to consider - buy a real camper trailer, used, and stay in campgrounds where you have shore power available. You'll like life a lot more.

When you're done traveling, you can sell it and get some of your money back.

BTW, I've spent a few years basically on the road like you are going to be. I learned a bit about finding cheap housing. Best place is usually NOT the Internet. Find the local free classified papers. That's where you'll find the deals. This works best if you're going to be a few months, rather than a few weeks, of course. Here's a couple of examples:

I worked in Connecticut for about 5 months. My colleagues were paying around $1300 per month to live 10 minutes from the office. I was paying $420 to live 20 minutes away.

In Detroit (Farmington, actually) I was paying $500, my colleagues were paying $1300-1500. Same commute time.

It can be done in most cities. Even in Seattle, an expensive place, I was paying about half what my buds were paying.

 

[PeeWeeQ]

For the most part, as far as HF goes, I only buy hand tools that I use once in a while or that I might need once. I've read a few good reviews on their Predator generators, so, I thought I'd throw it out there. I've ruined many of their power tools after one use myself (right angle drill, 4" grinder, circular saw, belt sander, on, and on...). I'll never buy anything with the name Chicago Electric or Central Pneumatic ever again. What's sad is how many it took for me to get it.

The wife and I were just talking about hotels. Are there even any out there anymore for $35-$40 per night anymore? I could handle that working 4 tens on the road, but, I could be in the same place for a month or more. On the other hand, in the winter, I could run that generator for 8 hours at a time (keeping my arse warm while I slumber). If the generator runtime is 10 hours at 50% capacity with a 6 gallon tank(and I don't even buy that level of efficiency), I figure I'm looking at 4-5 gallons per night at $4 per gallon (at current prices), that's $16 to $20 per night. If I work 4 tens (ten hour days), I may only spend 3 nights in there. $48 to $60 per week. No biggie. I could potentially double that or more if we work through the weekend. Better than hotels/motels, but, I spend that much per week ($140) driving back and forth to work every day and we hate it. It feels like throwing $560 per month out the window.

Anyway you cut it, working on the road ain't free. It's gonna cost....something. I'm just hoping to find the best (preferably cheapest) solution out there for me. If I can use my CUCV to help me in that response, AWESOME! If I gotta split a room with Bubba and Billy, well, at least I have a good ol' Army cot and my M1009 to get me there...

 

[bkwudzhom]

Where do you plan to put the bathroom? I have to say--the tag along camper is gonna be the best thing you can do. I think that it will be a ton easier. We actually had a guy doing it with a company I worked with and he was allowed to stay on site with power and all. A small cheap fixer up camper woould be the best by far.

 

[axeman]

At more than a few of the job sites I have worked at. The out of town guy or guys were welcomed to stay at the site. For security of site. One even stayed in a tent till he found a camp trailer.

 

[PeeWeeQ]

I really need to contact some of the contractors and ask them about that kind of stuff and about how guys do hotel arrangements. If 3 or 4 of us share, that might not be so bad...