My Experience W/ IFTA

[planeswalker]

I've recently had a very stressful experience with the Michigan Dept. of Treasury Special Taxes Div. - IFTA. After reading a few of the blogs on here regarding your individual experiences I had decided that it was worth looking into for myself. I had determined that since I owned a multi-fueled vehicle which had a GVW of over 10,000 lbs (a DOT standard) and that my vehicle had three axles (which may be why so many of you are "bobbing" your deuces) and because I wished to travel from state to state, that I should have an IFTA permit (which requires a DOT number).
Well, I got the DOT number, I registered with IFTA (both of which were free), and I received my permits before I got my truck home. The permits sat on my coffee table for a couple of months during the third quarter and the first month of the fourth quarter until I got my truck.
I had some really nice magnetic signs made up to go on the outside of each door. However, I found out (too late) that magnets don't really stick to CARC coating very well and I lost one on the road somewhere.
Now, because I hadn't even had the vehicle in my posession at all during the third quarter I did not file a return for that quarter (Yeah, oops). I filed my return for the fourth quarter as "no operation" even though I had driven this vehicle from Michigan all the way to Virginia and partway back (see my blog titled "broke down and desperate". I was under the impression that since I was using straight road diesel from the pump, that it was already taxed and that I did not need to declare it on my 101 schedule.
Needless to say I recently received a bill from the state of michigan for penalties and fees due to my disregard of the requirement for failing to file a third quarter return in the sum of $5,906.16. Of course I called them immeadiatly and I explained the situation to them.
They sent me a third quarter - delinquent form and a fourth quarter - amendment form for me to fill out and return before the end of February.
I got all of my records and all of my receipts together and I typed up a really nice report and I faxed it to their office so that they would have a copy of it in front of them to refer to when I called.
When I called the first thing that they asked me was, "Sir, what kind of vehicle is this?" I had insured, registered and plated my M109A3 as a 1971 Kaiser Motor Home. So I replied that it was a camper that I use for my own personal use. I use it not only for camping but also for transporting goods that I have purchased in other states that I return to recycling centers for profit.
The lady informed me that I did not need to file IFTA taxes and that she would be closing my account and sending me a letter stating a recording of our conversation that I am to carry in my glovebox in the event that I ever get pulled over for a tank dipping or stack swabbing check.
I am the owner of a 1971 M109A3 all terrain RV and I have successfully dodged a bullet!!

 

[Ruppster]

If the truck is registered as a "Motor Home" (i.e. RV) then they never should have given you the IFTA decals in the first place. The problem you may have is if the box on the M109 is empty (i.e. no toilet or bed) and you get stopped by a Commercial LEO you're going to have a hard time defending the "RV" exemption. The DOT number is weird too. I've had IFTA decals but never had to get a DOT number in order to get them.


Ruppster

 

[planeswalker]

The requirements here in Michigan are a little different than the ones in Florida. As I understand it, in Michigan a motor home is defined as having a bed and a cooking surface. When I filed for my IFTA permit there was a space on my form that asked for my DOT number, so I called up the DOT office and they explained that if I was applying for an IFTA permit and because I had a GVW over 10,000 lbs that I was also required to file with the DOT. Your vehicle may fall under a different category and because you live in a different state the requirements may be slightly different for you in regards to this as well.
Evidently the different state agencies don't communicate here in Michigan very well so the tax division didn't get the message from the motor vehicles division that I had registered it as a motor home.

 

[DieselBob]

I have thought about getting the IFTA stickers. Reading through the Md regs there is no exemption for historic plates that I run on the deuce. I can just see me forgetting the quarterly reports though with the small amount of fuel I burn anyway.

 

[m16ty]

I deal with IFTA on the commercial trucks we run. Like you said, it really doesn't cost anything, until you screw the paperwork up. It does require alot of paperwork to keep up with.

Luckly, in TN you only have to file with IFTA if you're running apportioned tags. On all of my MVs I run farm tags which doesn't require any extra paperwork.

 

[porkysplace]

m16ty farm tags are pretty restrictive here in michigan so are antique , any thing over 10,000 lbs requires a gvw plate they start at $500 a year .

 

[Ruppster]

The requirements here in Michigan are a little different than the ones in Florida. As I understand it, in Michigan a motor home is defined as having a bed and a cooking surface. When I filed for my IFTA permit there was a space on my form that asked for my DOT number, so I called up the DOT office and they explained that if I was applying for an IFTA permit and because I had a GVW over 10,000 lbs that I was also required to file with the DOT. Your vehicle may fall under a different category and because you live in a different state the requirements may be slightly different for you in regards to this as well.
Evidently the different state agencies don't communicate here in Michigan very well so the tax division didn't get the message from the motor vehicles division that I had registered it as a motor home.

You have a point, each state is different. I haven't had IFTA in Florida but when I got the IFTA decals from Virginia it was near the end of the year and they did not have the new stickers for the next year yet. I only got a sticker that was good for a month and a half. Even though I was never issued a sticker for the next year they kept sending me the quarterly forms anyhow. Then when I didn't file (since I never had a sticker for the new year) they tried to fine me for it. The response I got from them when I finally got them to understand I never had a sticker for the new year was funny. The sad part was I didn't really need the IFTA sticker in the first place as I could have used permits but the IFTA sticker was cheaper to get my truck cross country with.

I think what didn't help your case was when you told them it was used for making a profit when recycling metals. That means you're "in commerce" and therefore IFTA is required if you regularly go outside your home state and in to another. The key word here is "regularly". IIRC if you don't go out of state for 2 quarters in a row then they drop you and tell you to just deal with trip permits. The big question is do you run a recycling operation to the point that it requires you to file taxes on the money you get as income? If yes then you will need a DOT number along with IFTA and IRP permits for what ever state you drive in to. But if you don't have to file taxes then you might be able to get away without the permits.

I have thought about getting the IFTA stickers. Reading through the Md regs there is no exemption for historic plates that I run on the deuce. I can just see me forgetting the quarterly reports though with the small amount of fuel I burn anyway.

The sad part is the IFTA rules do give an exemption for restricted plates but when I researched in to what "restricted" meant they said farm plates. They don't consider antique plates to be "restricted". ATHS has been fighting for a while now to get heavy trucks with antique plates exempt from IFTA but have not had any luck yet. They're still pushing the issue though. But if you aren't leaving the state with the truck IFTA would not be an issue at all.

Luckly, in TN you only have to file with IFTA if you're running apportioned tags. On all of my MVs I run farm tags which doesn't require any extra paperwork.

Usually if a vehicle has apportioned plates that means the vehicle is used in commerce, therefore it would be required to have IFTA too. But it is possible to get IFTA decals without apportioned plates. I did that in Virgina. I only had the IFTA decal so I had to get IRP permits for some of the states I drove through when I went cross country. I couldn't get apportioned plates as I didn't have a business where I was in commerce with a location in a different state outside of my home state. At least both IRP and IFTA give exemptions for the farm tags. You're just restricted as far as how far you can drive with the farm tags.


Ruppster

 

[planeswalker]

Now hang on a sec. Ruppster, your location on here clearly states MacDill AFB, Florida. So how is it that you were required to file in Virginia? I thought that you filed from the state that you declared as home base.
In fact they interpreted their own regs in such a way as to be okay with me using my vehicle in this way. The lady from MI-IFTA told me that it would be no different than her putting her soda pop cans in her car and taking them to the grocery store to turn them in for the deposit. She explained that if I was ever contracted by someone else or if I went to a trade show and sold things out of the back of my vehicle then it would be a different story. She also said that each individual case was different than mine. That's the government for you. They leave so much open to interpretation by the legal system that no one really knows anything for sure.

 

[gunboy1656]

Well I like how they say "recreational vehicle", my truck is registered as antique. Thus would make a recreation vehicle as it is only used for parades, car/MV shows. So by definition I would be exempt.

2 Biggest word to confuse the DMV (or whatever your state calls it) is recreation vehicle and cargo. no 2 people will ever see the same meaning.

 

[Ruppster]

Now hang on a sec. Ruppster, your location on here clearly states MacDill AFB, Florida. So how is it that you were required to file in Virginia?

Sorry, I was talking about having IFTA in the past (my wife was stationed in VA at the time). My wife was transferred to a base in Alaska after her assignment in Virginia. Since Alaska is not part of IFTA (that's why I wasn't worried when I didn't get a new decal for the new year) I couldn't have kept IFTA if I wanted to. I only needed the decal for the month of December anyhow to help with the PCS from VA to AK. And yes, we are now in Florida but since I am not commercial (the truck in my avatar is my antique play toy and is only for personal use) I do not need DOT numbers (U.S. or state), IFTA, or IRP (Virginia was the same way too). I don't drive out of state often enough to warrant having an IFTA decal anyhow. So I just get trip permits as needed (as I did when we PCS'd back down from Alaska a year ago, but not all states we drove through required them). I'm about to go up to GA with my semi in a week or two to pick up another truck and will be buying IRP and IFTA permits from GA for when I'm up there. Would rather pay a few bucks for permits then risk getting another fine like the $600 one NC gave me several years ago.

The lady from MI-IFTA told me that it would be no different than her putting her soda pop cans in her car and taking them to the grocery store to turn them in for the deposit. She explained that if I was ever contracted by someone else or if I went to a trade show and sold things out of the back of my vehicle then it would be a different story. She also said that each individual case was different than mine. That's the government for you. They leave so much open to interpretation by the legal system that no one really knows anything for sure.

The lady is making a very weak comparison. There is a huge difference between getting a deposit back for a bunch of cans or bottles (since that's money you paid in the first place and is not "profit") versus taking something you bought for a low price for the sole purpose of taking it to a scrap metal place and making a profit off of the transaction. But as I mentioned before it mainly comes down to how you run your operation. If you make enough money at it that it requires you to file taxes on the operation then you are in commerce and her claim that you don't need IFTA because "it's just like getting your deposit back from a bunch of cans" is a crock of bull. But if you do it for just a little pocket change and don't have to file taxes on the money you make from doing it then odds are you're safe. Even if you don't have to file taxes on the recycling stuff don't tell a weigh scale official that that is what you do as they will put you right in to the Commercial category in a heartbeat and then the fun will really start.

Well I like how they say "recreational vehicle", my truck is registered as antique. Thus would make a recreation vehicle as it is only used for parades, car/MV shows. So by definition I would be exempt.

The problem is most Commercial LEO's see "recreational vehicle" and "recreational usage" as two different things. Even though your use of the truck is recreational unless it is registered as an RV then it is still a big truck to many Commercial LEO's. That's why M109's are nice. They are so easy to set up as a basic RV and as such the tandem axles won't cause you problems if you drive out of state.

2 Biggest word to confuse the DMV (or whatever your state calls it) is recreation vehicle and cargo. no 2 people will ever see the same meaning.

Sad but true.



Ruppster

 

[rmgill]

If the truck is registered as a "Motor Home" (i.e. RV) then they never should have given you the IFTA decals in the first place. The problem you may have is if the box on the M109 is empty (i.e. no toilet or bed) and you get stopped by a Commercial LEO you're going to have a hard time defending the "RV" exemption. The DOT number is weird too. I've had IFTA decals but never had to get a DOT number in order to get them.


Ruppster

The problem with that argument is that there are Commercial Trucks that have that and more in the sleeper boxes. A toilet doesn't make the vehicle NOT commercial any more than a bed does. It's use, not equipment.

Now, the regs are poorly worded but the intent is the above.