My "new" MEP-002A will not display Hz

[robertsears1]

I bought a MEP-002A generator last week from Ft Bragg. I bought it without actually touching it, just from the pictures which is a bit of a chance. I have a MEP-003A and -804 and have a semi-junk -002A so I am somewhat familiar. I did like from the pictures that it had a new fuel tank and starter so it had seen some service in it's past life. It went off for $545 ($650 all in) so I didn't steal it (there is always that one guy bidding it up who didn't seem to understand the 15 min rule (last bid @ 1700) or perhaps I ran him out of money). By the time I bought batteries and filters, I'm down around another $130.

At home, first glance looks promising. Not beat up or rusty other than the nice patina it gets in the yard at GL. Serviced it since it was fully drained and got ready to fire it up. It was made in 1981 by Hollingsworth and CARC painted in 2006. No dirt dobbers or chewed wires visible to include behind the control panel. The flywheel moved but I forgot to check the injector pump for movement but lucked out since it was not stuck. The pumps made the clicking sound when powered up but sounded slightly hollow. It did run for around 5 sec but that was it. Played with the pumps and got one working and tried it again. After running a few minutes, the second pump started working. This two cyl 002A seems to take longer to get up to speed than the 4 cyl 003A. It also has a different sound and shakes more. We noticed that the Hz needle would not register except upon shutdown when it would do one sweep. It puts out power in all modes (very smooth selector sw) and voltage displays leg to leg. Still no Hz display. Dropped the control panel and saw nothing obvious and all connections tight. My 003A used to have spells of no Hz displayed but it seemed to have fixed itself. Once the spring that works the throttle arm up front slipped down the threaded rod and it would not come up to speed as it should. I checked it on this unit (002A) and it looks fine. I noticed that the hour meter has not moved also. No voltage reads (AC or DC) on the lugs on Hz gauge while running. I searched the threads but saw no solution so far. Any suggestions?
Robert

 

[dependable]

The gauges fail, also the frequency transducer (in your 4th picture), they also fail. Check the connections on these too.

 

[Triple Jim]

This probably isn't your problem, but... the frequency meter will read very erratically if the engine speed is very far from 1800 rpm, sometimes reading full scale one way and/or the other. Have you verified that the engine is really running 1800 rpm?

 

[Ray70]

Your Frequency transducer is probably shot. (upper left corner of your 4th pic.) an easy way to test it is to detach the 2 AC in wires on the left side of the transducer and attach a line cord in their place. Plug it into utility power and see if it reads 59-60 hz. If you still get nothing then most likely the transducer is dead. If by some slim chance you do get a good reading, then you will need to look at the rest of the system, probably starting with the transformer feeding the transducer.

 

[robertsears1]

Thanks for the replies. I will test out the theories and report back. The semi-junk 002A I have is mostly missing some control items such as the main switch. I took it to Delk's and had the generator man look at it. He thought that it would take $300-400 to get running. I can at least rob parts in the meantime to see if the gauges and transducer may be bad.

Robert

 

[DieselAddict]

I bought a MEP-002A generator last week from Ft Bragg. I bought it without actually touching it, just from the pictures which is a bit of a chance.
Robert

Just so you know.. I touched it when I was at Ft. Bragg looking things over. Not in a bad way.

 

[Ray70]

According to the VW commercial, if you had licked the starter switch it would have been considered yours....

 

[DieselAddict]

I did lick a few 802s while I was there. Hopefully that will translate.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I would check out the frequency your unit is putting out by using a Kill-A-Watt meter. Very handy to have one around anyway. Then with a Kill-A-Watt in hand you can verify that your engine is running at 1800 RPM (60 Hz). Then if your unit is running at 60 Hz in all likelihood your transducer is faulty. If that's the case you might consider going to a digital gauge replacement.

 

[Keith_J]

The frequency meter is a 200 microamp meter movement. When the transducer functions properly the output is 100 microamp at 60 Hz. This makes it hard to test with a voltmeter.
This is a transducer issue and probably a calibration pot that needs exercising. If the transducer has an adjustment screw, turn it1/2 turn either direction and see. If it works, calibrate transducer and meter on utility power.

 

[robertsears1]

I will try to do as Keith J suggested. The gauge seems to work as I tapped off the Hz meter on my 003A although it only read about 40 while the other gauge (003A) said 60, maybe because of resistance in the wires. I had borrowed a device that reads rotation in rpm and stuck it to the nut on the fan and adjusted the rpm to ~1800. The starter lockout device was not adjusted properly so I have that working now although I never could get the .040" gap specified. The hour meter did not work so I swapped it around with the semi junk 002A meter and it works. I ran a shaper with a 3 hp 208 3 phase motor to exercise it a bit. I tried to run another shaper with a 5 hp motor that the plate says pulls 13 amps @ 208 v but it keeps dumping the main breaker on the generator. I guess the starting amps are too high for the main breaker. I will keep playing with it and thanks for the suggestions.

Robert

 

[Triple Jim]

Wiring resistance won't change the AC frequency, so if it read 40 when the frequency was really 60, something is wrong.

You're right about starting current. That can easily be 5 times running current. I've actually measured industrial 3 phase motors that draw about ten times their running current when starting! My 003A can start my industrial air compressor that has a 1750 RPM 5 HP motor, but the engine speed sags momentarily and the lights in the house dim a bit.

 

[robertsears1]

I started the 002A generator this morning just to see how it does with it cool. It starts better than my 003A but the starter lockout that I thought was adjusted right yesterday started acting up again. However, I glanced at the Hz meter and it was working! It was showing around 63 so my tach setting speed method was in the ballpark. Of course, later in the day, the Hz meter is not displaying.

Robert

 

[robertsears1]

This morning, I again started the 002A. It must be a morning person because the Hz meter is displaying correctly like a champ. I'm going to exercise it for about an hour running a 3 hp shaper. If I am not running electronics but just 3 phase woodworking equipment, will it hurt anything without reading the Hz since I will leave the throttle set now that I can read the Hz (at least in the morning)?
Robert

 

[Triple Jim]

There's really very little in the way of electrical equipment that would be bothered by the frequency being a few Hz off of 60. Mainly old motor driven clocks. Modern electronic equipment like TVs, DVRs, and computers have power supplies that make DC for all the internals, and those power supplies are very tolerant of voltage and frequency errors. My wife ran the 003A here for and hour or so when the commercial power went out and I wasn't home. Somehow the governor knob had gotten moved and the generator was running at about 55 Hz the whole time. Nothing here cared, and we have plenty of computer and video stuff, refrigerators, etc.. The old '60s electric clock in my shop was 5 minutes off though.

 

[Chainbreaker]

One of my units behaves just like your are describing (Hz meter reading comes and goes). I do plan to replace with a set of digital gauges eventually. In the mean time, I just set it to 61.5 Hz per the TM just after warm up (verified by my Kill-A-Watt meter) and then leave it alone. As long as your governor is dialed in correctly (no hunting etc.) you should be fine. In other words, nothing is dependent on your Hz meter functioning consistently once Hz is set.

 

[Ray70]

Robert, have you already had success running a 3hp motor off an 002 without tripping the breaker on startup? If so, that's awesome! I can't start my 3hp lathe with an 002. Soon I'll try a 2 hp milling machine I recently got, but other than that I had to get an 003 because I have a 10hp VMC I'm selling and need to be able to demonstrate it, but at least that has a Baldor H2 Vector drive on it, so I bet the 002 would start the 10hp VMC easier than a 3 hp lathe!
I'd be interested to know what size motors you have successfully started with your 002 without popping the breaker instantly!
Thank you...

 

[robertsears1]

Ray70, I was running a 3 hp shaper which is only a little more load than just starting the motor itself. It did that fine. It would not, however, start a 5 hp shaper with again very little starting load over a bare motor. The main breaker kicks off right away. I read the sticky thread about the main breaker and did not see an easy fix. The 003A handles the 5 hp fine. I have started a 7.5 hp motor on a 24" Toritt chip collector but it made it grunt. I bought a MEP 804 to run a big compressor (55 cfm@ 15 hp) and found a 15 hp motor hardwired 460 v. You can reconfigure the board on the 804 and crank up to voltage knob to get to 460. I have not run it yet.
Robert

 

[Triple Jim]

You know, a 5 hp shaper is a darned big shaper! It would be fun to visit your wood shop sometime. What do you make there?

 

[robertsears1]

I just piddle although I did build my house. I discovered GovLiq in 2002 and IRS auctions a little later. Before that I bought a 20" planer in 1993 and a 36" bandsaw around 1995. I saw how to make 3 phase with a static and then rotary converter. I discovered MEP generators around 2003 after I got out of the service.

20" planer (Powermatic), 2 x 36" bs (PM and Northfield), 20" metal/wood bs (PM), Doall bs, 12" bs, 10" (PM) and 2 x 16-18" tablesaws (Northfield), 10",14",18" radial arm saws (Delta/Rockwell), Delta lathe, Oliver 30" disk sander/oscillating spindle sanderthat was delivered new in 1941/42 and came out of the Pentagon, Oliver 6x60" belt/15" disk sander, Rockwell HD shaper, Weaver door making system shapers (3), Toritt 24" cyclone and ducting (not installed yet), big Curtis C-89 comp and blast cabinet (not operating yet--need more shelter).
Robert