My (new to me) MEP-803a won't crank from start switch.

[Farmitall]

I picked up the generator this morning from the commercial address I had it shipped to.
Installed the fuse mod.
Removed case over electrical end to check for any mouse invasion, there was none and the unit is very clean inside.
Checked the oil, CLEAN AND FULL.
Checked the coolant, clean and full.
Added 4gal clean fuel to tank.
Rotated the engine by hand several revolutions, have compression.
Installed batteries from my other set temporarily to test newer unit.
Switched dead crank switch and cranked the engine over a few times for about ten seconds each, it cranks well.

Turned on switch to prime and can see one relay in the line up of five behind the control panel pull in, fuel pump runs for a few seconds then stops. That relay drops out and the ones left and right of it pull in. The NO FUEL fault light comes on and the unit will not crank from the starter switch.
I inspected and swapped around and reseated all the relays and no joy.

I can hear a relay clicking under the cover as if it's trying to make contact and start but it's not cranking.

CB1 is engaged and not tripped.

I engaged the starter AT THE STARTER with a screwdriver and the engine cranks fine.

Its been raining here off and on for days so my time at the generator is cut short.

I'll be looking over the schematic this evening.

 

[DieselAddict]

Your low fuel switch could be bad. Pull the cover over the tank and unplug the 4 pin flat plug going to the switches. See if the pump runs.

 

[jamawieb]

More than likely its the low fuel fault, see if the light is working and then see if it comes on when the pump shuts off. That is about the only thing that would cause the fuel pump to stop and the switch not to start.
One time I had this happen and the light was blown, took me forever to figure out the float was stuck. LOL!

 

[Bmxenbrett]

You can reach in the fuel tank fill and feel the low level float. Moving it around or holding it up while someone cranks the set may help..before you go taking every pannel off the generator. 1/4-1/2 tank should be good to be off the low level even for the aux pump switch.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Try this... the instant it starts, flip the battle short on. See if it still runs, and if the light illuminates.

 

[Farmitall]

Try this... the instant it starts, flip the battle short on. See if it still runs, and if the light illuminates.

I've not got it to run yet (the generator)but the fuel pump does run with the battle short on but still doesn't crank.

Bmxenbrett, I did reach into the tank and moved the two floats around. It felt like there was a wire zip tie around the shaft of it as I could feel the ridges along the free end. Wondering why someone would have put that on there?

If the weather holds today I'll do some more checking. At this point I'm pretty confident that it is the low fuel/no fuel fault that is causing the no crank condition.

I'm wondering if I can eliminate that device from the circuit by unplugging or a jumper? Dieseladdict, I will try your suggestion.

I need to to pull the cover anyway just to inspect things.

Well, as I'm typing this, here comes the rains again.....it's getting old!!! Will get back to it at first opportunity.

 

[Farmitall]

More than likely its the low fuel fault, see if the light is working and then see if it comes on when the pump shuts off. That is about the only thing that would cause the fuel pump to stop and the switch not to start.
One time I had this happen and the light was blown, took me forever to figure out the float was stuck. LOL!

I will do that, and I think you are correct. Thanks!

 

[jamawieb]

I've not got it to run yet (the generator)but the fuel pump does run with the battle short on but still doesn't crank.

Bmxenbrett, I did reach into the tank and moved the two floats around. It felt like there was a wire zip tie around the shaft of it as I could feel the ridges along the free end. Wondering why someone would have put that on there?

If the weather holds today I'll do some more checking. At this point I'm pretty confident that it is the low fuel/no fuel fault that is causing the no crank condition.

I'm wondering if I can eliminate that device from the circuit by unplugging or a jumper? Dieseladdict, I will try your suggestion.

I need to to pull the cover anyway just to inspect things.

Well, as I'm typing this, here comes the rains again.....it's getting old!!! Will get back to it at first opportunity.

Yes, you can bypass the circuit by unplugging the float sender and jumping connector 3 & 4. Look at the schematics and get the wire numbers to know exactly which ones to jump. Someone may have zipped tied them so they could get a newer unit. Check the bulb, I bet that's been removed too.

 

[Farmitall]

Yes, you can bypass the circuit by unplugging the float sender and jumping connector 3 & 4. Look at the schematics and get the wire numbers to know exactly which ones to jump. Someone may have zipped tied them so they could get a newer unit. Check the bulb, I bet that's been removed too.

Thanks, I'll check the schematic for the correct pins. The bulb in the fault light is present and does light.

If if this is the worst problem I endure with this set, I think I did pretty well for what I paid for it.

 

[Guyfang]

Try this... the instant it starts, flip the battle short on. See if it still runs, and if the light illuminates.

An even better way to do this is to hold the fault indicator reset in, and hold it in, then turn S1 to the start position. The engine should start. Then flip the S7 to the up position, and let the reset button go. The gen set should run, and you should get an low fuel light, if that's the problem.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I didn't know the reset button acted like a temporary override too... so that's great to know. Thanks Guy.

 

[Guyfang]

When you push the reset button, it resets the engine fault relay, (I think). Try it. Unhook a wire, to lets say the over temp circuit, or what ever. Try to start the set. It should shut down. Then try the reset trick.

 

[Farmitall]

An even better way to do this is to hold the fault indicator reset in, and hold it in, then turn S1 to the start position. The engine should start. Then flip the S7 to the up position, and let the reset button go. The gen set should run, and you should get an low fuel light, if that's the problem.

Thank you! I'll try that next break in the rain here.

Well it quit raining and I did as you said and it fired right up and remains running with the battleshort switch on, and the no fuel light is lit.

So I guess that confirms that the low fuel sensor is the culprit here.

Guyfang, you are a true MASTER and I appreciate your response and help!

Thank You So Much!

The set runs smooth as silk, no smoke or fumes( even from a cold start). I'm going to run it for a while and see if it comes up to an operating temperature. If it remains cold like the other one, I'll change out the thermostat.

I love this board and appreciate all the help!

 

[Guyfang]

Your assuming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget that the FL1 runs through the A9. I would just pull the FL1 and FL2 module out, hook op the plug again and just see what happens. Then I would test the FL1 and FL2 module IAW the TM. If its bad, so be it. But if it tests good, may want to take a look see at the A9. Its nice to have someone help when testing. You can do it alone, but its easier with help.

You should also be able to unplug the A2, and then start up the set. Try it. The set should run without A2.

 

[Farmitall]

Your assuming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget that the FL1 runs through the A9. I would just pull the FL1 and FL2 module out, hook op the plug again and just see what happens. Then I would test the FL1 and FL2 module IAW the TM. If its bad, so be it. But if it tests good, may want to take a look see at the A9. Its nice to have someone help when testing. You can do it alone, but its easier with help.

You should also be able to unplug the A2, and then start up the set. Try it. The set should run without A2.

I never disconnected any plug, I just followed your procedure to see if it would crank and run. I was mainly interested in just getting the unit to start to see if it was mechanically sound.

I will continue to troubleshoot. Thanks!

 

[Guyfang]

I never disconnected any plug, (But you can if you want, and it should run) I just followed your procedure to see if it would crank and run. I was mainly interested in just getting the unit to start to see if it was mechanically sound. (Its a good way to work the set. Pull the plug on A2, and then you can start and run the set. Just no safety circuit. But if you have other issues, you can continue to troubleshoot)

I will continue to troubleshoot. Thanks!

.

 

[Farmitall]

Thanks, I understand the issue with running the set without the fault protections and ultimately will not do that. Your info on the cranking using the fault reset button and battleshort was excellent and allowed me to satisfy my curiosity as to whether the set was a gem or a heap.
I'll continue to isolate the problem down to the proper component before I get to the parts purchasing stage.

 

[DieselAddict]

Yes, you can bypass the circuit by unplugging the float sender and jumping connector 3 & 4. Look at the schematics and get the wire numbers to know exactly which ones to jump. Someone may have zipped tied them so they could get a newer unit. Check the bulb, I bet that's been removed too.

No jumping required. Just unplug it and go.

 

[Farmitall]

Thanks, once I pull the cover off I will unplug the low fuel harness, reset the fault panel and see if it cranks and starts.

Then I will follow the procedure of putting an ohm meter across the different pins to see if the floats vary the resistances and make continuity. The upper for turning on the auxiliary fuel pump and the lower float for tripping the fault panel.

I'm going to pull the no fuel module anyway to see why there is a wire zip tie on it.

Also going to check the fuel guage (on both sets) per the TM to see if that is good or if the level sending unit is malfunctioning as the fuel guage doesn't appear to be reading correctly on this unit either.

 

[Jetred]

I have a test I run for the fuel gauge. Prop my phone on the trailer with the camera showing the fuel gauge and record a video. Then reach my hand in the filler neck to move the float arm up and down. Once I get a “feel” for the action. I say empty, quarter, half, three-quarters,full as I swing the float from empty to full. Works surprisingly well. You’ll be surprised how fast the pointer in the fuel gauge will move. Instant readings.