Nartron/KDS S3 Diagnostic Interface

[Wire Fox]

I just did a quick & dirty review of the MSD-ICE test kit on eBay and it got me thinking about things I could test using the digital DPA device. Obviously, there's the GM UART connector to test the 4L80E TCM, but I also realized the the S3 control box has a SAE J1939 connector, which that kit supports.

Does anybody have any data about how to conduct a test on that bus connector of the S3, or possibly an updated IETM that will have an automated or semi-automated test procedure to run on that port? I'd appreciate that info, and would be glad to run those tests on my box and share any useful data gleaned from that testing.

 

[Wire Fox]

All this info looked useful and relevant, so I decided to copy it here and put in bold the most relevant info...

Date 23 March, 2009

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

LARS ALL

SUBJECT: HMMWV Smart Start System (S3) control box, NSN 6110-01-542-7901

ISSUE: Need your help getting the word out. The new S3 control box has made its way to the field. The S3 control box is replacing the engine electrical start system (EESS) control box.

The S3 was cut into HMMWV production starting with serial number 255269. Ordering this NSN will get you the S3 box along with the temperature sensor.
The most noticeable difference is the S3 control box has three connector receptacles, unlike the EESS control box that only has two connector receptacles. The third connector receptacles on the S3 control box will be used at a later time for data logging and troubleshooting.

The EESS controller and the new S3 controller are interchangeable.
Currently the TM 9-2320-387-24P does not reference the S3 control box. This change will be incorporated in future TM updates.

S3 Enhancements over the EESS

A backwards compatible design with improvements for known field issues:

Elimination of pulsing headlamps and voltmeter gauges.
Immunity to glow plug re-activation when horn is used.
Provides for lower current starter switch as well as starter lockout while engine is running.
Does not flash the wait-to-start lamp during default mode operation to avoid operator confusion.
Operates with same temperature sensor as used for the EESS.
Immunity to relay icing.
Improved glow plug tip temperature control.
Vehicle ground fault tolerant.
Newly developed sealing system to meet stricter requirements.
Meets more severe EMI requirements.
Over current protection added for the wait-to-start and brake warning lamp circuits.
Withstands ESD for packaging and handling classification test of SAE J1113-13 to +25kV.
Uses chemical agent resistant coating (CARC).
Diagnostics through SAE J1939 compliant data bus.
Compatible with other SAE J1939 components.
Monitors and records unit parameters as an additional aid for system troubleshooting.
Electrical serialization providing for lot traceability.
Field reprogrammable to meet future enhancements and upgrades utilizing existing equipment.
Field useable application for Maintenance Support Device (MSD) is available for the S3 and vehicle diagnostics.


S3 Diagnostic Capabilities

The S3 has the capability to monitor the following fault conditions and report them over a J1939 CAN bus:

System voltage too high for operation.
System voltage too low for operation.
Glow plugs not connected / open.
Glow plugs shorted.
Glow plug driver failure.
Temperature probe fault high or low.
Glow Plug Controller used in place of Temperature Probe.
Wait-to-start lamp over current.
Brake lamp over current.
Relay fault.
Gate voltage too low.

 

[jeffy777]

You are about a year to two ahead of me. I want to figure out how to get and maintain the diagnostic equipment. I would like to recreate the equipment to work with PC or tablet. I just got too much on my plate. Keep going, keep doing the good work I will get there maybe, or you bring it home. It would be good to have good diagnostics. GREAT JOB.

 

[MaverickH1]

Amen to all of this. I want the HMMWV to be able to talk to me so our conversations are less one sided.

 

[Wire Fox]

I've already got the MSD-ICE adapter set talking to a non-Miltope computer. (Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit) I can't run half the programs at this time because they are not compatible with a 64-bit system. In the near future, I'll yank an old laptop and set it up with Windows XP SP3, 32-bit edition so that I closely recreate the Miltope environment. I'm actually pretty sure that it will all run on a 32-bit version of Windows 7, so I might try that first in order to avoid security issues for the future... If anyone wants to pick up one of the MSD test sets and needs help getting the ICE Box functional, I'd be glad to help you with that. If you shoot me a PM, I'll reply back with my phone number so that we can talk about what you have to do to make it all happen, even if you're missing the software discs.

To not lose too much track on this topic...still very open to hearing about any known diagnostic testing procedures for the S3 Control Box. I'll follow-up on my own if I figure it out before I hear back from anyone.

 

[jeffy777]

I think I remember you saying this was serial communications. Is that true? If so if you can send me some pin out information I might be able to read the data and build you a 64/32 windows computer application for both functions over time.

 

[DrOfData]

Did anything ever come of this? Sounded good!

 

[Wire Fox]

Did anything ever come of this? Sounded good!

No, it hadn't. I didn't have the serial cable when I was thinking about it. That's different now, so I'll have to get it tried out soon.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

 

[AOR]

There is a slight chance I have have the scanner and cables for this I will need to check. I have a Snap on Solus scanner probably the Ultra model that we rarely use and I googled that Jspec and Snap on Solus and they show up on the same documents I spent a few mins searching the document but I have not located the page yet that google is finding and I am out of time for now I will check today. I do not have a smart control box to test in on though.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

So just what data do you think your going to get ? It’s a fully mechanical truck.
nothing you can’t already get with a ste/ice unit, nothing is adjustable as there is no ECM.
The A2 trucks can flash TCM codes and use modern diag tools for the trans side of the house.

 

[Wire Fox]

So just what data do you think your going to get ? It’s a fully mechanical truck.
nothing you can’t already get with a ste/ice unit, nothing is adjustable as there is no ECM.
The A2 trucks can flash TCM codes and use modern diag tools for the trans side of the house.

Please see the quoted section of post 2. The intent is to diagnose the S3 itself if there is any issue currently being explored. It's also supposedly able to be reprogrammed, though, I'm not sure what we'd possibly want to reprogram in it.

Spit balling here: would make for an overly high-tech security system, since the S3 can control the solenoids and ability to engage the starter (which the STE-ICE port can override). Unfortunately, reprogramming an automotive part is far beyond my skill set.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

 

[Action]

Maybe it can tell folks why their hmmwv wont start, when they dont want to look in the TM. Lol.