Need some help researching the history of my deuce

[bjorn2bwild]

Greetings everyone.

I acquired a Deuce about three years ago, but haven't really done much with it as I was only supposed to be owner for a few months while a buddy of mine got together the money to buy it from me (he found a deal he couldn't pass up, but didn't have the cash on hand. I saw a way to make some quick cash and help a friend).

Well, for the sake of brevity, I'll say that I'm still the owner, and now I'm taking interest in learning about the history of the particular truck I own (as well as get it back into shape!).

My deuce is a 67 and the VIN is 4K4768.

According to the sticky article about decoding VINs, if I did the math right, it is the 104758th deuce to be produced since 1960 (when the new numbering method was adopted).

Am I doing the math correctly on this one (9999 vehicles per letter, letters a-k, excepting I since it looks like 1)?

I will verify the ID with the stamped dash placard tomorrow.

Also, there's some discrepancy with the bumper ID markings.

The markings when I received the truck read "23-INF-SF" on the left, and "Cco-25" on the right. After doing a little bit of research, I believe this to mean that the truck was formerly of the 23rd Infantry Division - Special Forces. I have yet to find a clear answer to what Cco-25 stands for.

The discrepancy comes in that this afternoon, as I was scraping and sanding getting ready for a repaint, I uncovered another set of markings under the top coat of paint. Most of these were obscured, but I could read enough to know that the designation was not "23-INI-SF Cco-25". I could only clearly make out the last two numbers on the right side, which read 53 or perhaps 153. Also, the top coat was OD green, but the underlying coat was desert tan. And, to complicate matters worse, below the tan was an OD green layer (and possibly yet another set of markings).

The previous owner had told me that this truck had been refurbished for a movie before he owned it. I have no idea of that is true or not. If it is, then that would easily explain the different unit markings.

Anyway, I'm excited to unravel the mystery behind this truck, and would appreciate any insight you guys could give me. Thanks!

 

[cranetruck]

It may or may not be Special Forces, the image below shows the bumper markings on an actual SF vehicle....

 

[CARNAC]

I think your bumper markings are from the movie set. The 23rd ID was inactivated in 1971. In addition, SF units were non-divisional units. Sounds kinda hokie to me to have those bumper numbers. Potentially could it be SB instead SF? That would make more sense if the numbers actually come from the Vietnam era. That would be the signal battalion.

Is the tan just on the bumper or on the rest of the vehicle? It is common to paint the outter parts of the bumper tan and put the unit ID markings in black. With that said, it is still possible the entire vehicle was tan either from desert storm or just being stationed in TX.

Here's where your vehicle was in Aug 1992, the last date it was reported in the Army database:
Organization: 62ND QUARTERMASTER COMPANY
Location: FT HOOD TEXAS
Nomenclature:TRUCK CARGO 2-1/2T Model:M35A2 NSN:2320000771616
Serial Number:12529459 Registration Number:4K4768 Year of Mfg:1967
Manufacturer:65909

 

[emmado22]

My $$$ is on it ggot painted Tan in Ft Hood for the Desert Storm build up. From what I have been told by those who lived there, the whole place smelled like CARC for a few weeks as they rushed to paint everything from Woodland to Tan...

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Like a good gravy, the plot thickens

Alrighty folks,

Had a chance to thoroughly check out the deuce's ID markings this afternoon.

The data plate in the cab shows 4K4768 and 0125-29459 as the S/N and R/N. The contract number is too worn to read.

However, I checked the left side of the frame by the steering box and (after some scraping and sanding) found what appears to be 0540. nothing more.


As for the bumper markings... the 2-3INF-SF CcO 25 is totally wrong. Upon closer examination, I learned that they were applied as adhesive labels, not painted on. Sounds very much like a quick "make it look good for a movie" sort of fix.

The front bumper's original markings were unreadable, but I did have some luck with the rear bumpers.

Under the green coat, there's a tan coat that has left side markings of 2^502FSB and right side markings of B 153 (the ^ indicating the triangle denoting "armored").

So, I'm reading the unit marking as "2nd armored division, 502nd Forward Support Battalion". I'm not certain what the individual marking (B153) stands for.

****EDIT: I'm fairly confident, after a little searching, that B 153 shows that the truck was the 153rd truck of B Company, a maintenance support element.*****

Doing a bit of research, the 2nd armored division is based out of Ft. Hood, which makes sense considering the last known military record of the deuce places it there.

What's interesting is another, lighter tan paint job exists under the tan paint job where the 2nd armored markings appear. I only had time to uncover the right rear bumper, and it again shows B 153.

Is it possible that this deuce actually saw action in, say, desert storm and was repainted in the field?


There are several layers of paint underneath these as well. I'll attempt to uncover the next one tomorrow.

For those of you who were wondering, yes, it does appear to have been painted tan all over and was painted green later on. And, the green paint job was rather poor, actually. There are many places (edges, behind hinges, etc) where you can see the tan paint job. To me, this further suggests that the green paint was applied for a movie. which one? who knows?

I've attached some pictures of the data plate, frame number, rear bumper markings, and one of the whole deuce.

The front bumper was painted by me yesterday, and I'm aware that the color is slightly off. Originally, we were simply going to do a quick "paint the bumper and then spray on the bumper markings" so this truck would be street legal again. I registered it as a "former military vehicle" under TTC 504.502(f), so the bumper markings are effectively the truck's license plate.

This complicates things as I registered it as "23INFSF" when in actuality, it's "2^502FSB". That's something I'll need to take up with the DOT, but I digress...

 

[emmado22]

Yes, your deuce is a Combat Vet. The 502nd FSB (Forward Support Battalion) was deployed with 1st Brigade (Tiger) of 2nd Armored Division to Desert Storm. (1st BDE provided Armor Support to the USMC as they went into Kuwait) 502nd brought their equipment from Ft Hood, as there was no equipment to fall in in in theater. (as told to by guys that were actually IN 502nd when they deployed)

When 2nd AD came back home, they got reflagged as 4th ID. Your truck got surplused out BEFORE the reflagging (or else it would of had 4ID 4FSB Bumper #'s...) I was in 4th FSB, and if you looked hard enough under the coats of paint, you could see 502nd bumper markings on many of the trucks. And I had some NCO's that were PVT's who deployed with 502nd, and drove some of the same HEMTTs in DS that we had in the motorpool.

BCo was the Maintaince Company in the FSB.. Your truck got DRMO'ed thru Ft Hood.

I also bet that under the tan 502nd marked paint is the green, as prior to DS, everything that was deploying to DS got a coat of Tan CARC.. Armyman30years can give you more info on that one. I'll bet that once the 502nd came home, the truck got painted again to "make it pretty" as deployments are not kind to paint jobs.

Cool piece of history you got there.

 

[CARNAC]

One more point, don't assume the number of paint jobs on the bumper will equate to the number of paint jobs the entire vehicle received. Bumpers (front and rear) are the most painted parts of military vehilces. Each time they change units, or get reflagged to a new unit, or whatevery happens, the bumpers get repainted. Having multiple coats of tan paint on the bumpers is very, very common.

Any idea when your truck was purchased from DRMO?

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Awesome info, thanks guys!

Medlog, the last record I have for the deuce at this time was when the previous owner purchased it. That was 1999, and it was from an auction house.

I'm going to look into the title history. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with some idea of where it went in those seven years between Ft. Hood and the auction house. I'll keep you posted.

****edit: I spoke with TX DoT. The earliest record they have of it being in TX is 1999, when the owner previous to me purchased it. Also got the registration fixed, so now I'm legal to display the 2nd armored markings. ****

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Can anyone explain the inconsistency between the frame number and the serial?

 

[ida34]

I also bet that under the tan 502nd marked paint is the green, as prior to DS, everything that was deploying to DS got a coat of Tan CARC.. Armyman30years can give you more info on that one. I'll bet that once the 502nd came home, the truck got painted again to "make it pretty" as deployments are not kind to paint jobs.

Cool piece of history you got there.

Not all vehicles deployed got painted. None of our vehicles got painted. There was not time. We had our stuff on ships within a week. I was forward deployed to the 101st ABN but my battalion headquarters was at Bragg with the 82nd ABN. We were technically an 18 ABN Corps assest so we left before the 101st got marching orders. I don't think any 82nd ABN or 18th ABN Corp vehicles got painted. We just got issued Tan Camo nets to take the place of our forest green nets. In fact, our inverted Vs were painted in white instead of black to contrast. You guys at Hood had time to get your stuff painted.

 

[emmado22]

I was referring to Ft Hood only with the painting..

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Lost years found!

Just got off the phone with the previous owner before me.

He had the paperwork from when he purchased it, as well as some info about the vehicle's history before he got it.

In Nov 1994, the vehicle was DRMO'd from Ft. Hood.
It wound up in the hands of an auction outfit called "auction plus" where it remained until 1999, when the previous owner to me bought it.

It appears as though, during that time, Auction Plus did not title the vehicle, so that explains why the TX title history only goes back to 99.

The previous owner also said that Auction Plus said that they loaned the vehicle to a movie studio. Still unsure of which one.

I picked up some contact information for Auction Plus and will call them tomorrow, hopefully they will be able to shed some light on the movie issue.

 

[Old2AD63B]

I was a mechanic in C co. 502nd from 1992 to 1994 and can tell you some more history. This truck actually originated from Fort Polk and was in the 105th FSB/5th ID. In 1992 there was huge base realignment and closure going on. The 105th FSB was (at least we were told) the first Army unit in the BRAC to execute a move from one post to the other. We rail loaded a large portion of the vehicles for transport and also convoyed quite a few. I was the recovery specialist for C co. and I TC'd for the B co. HEMMT driver for the convoy....anyway....with the move we became 502nd FSB.

The reason you have two different shades of tan we painted them once in Fort Polk before we left and had to repaint them for some reason after we arrived. The maintenance teams had to repaint them and I lost my last pair of jungle boots to the CARC....

It is not a combat vet as we were not deployed to Iraq, but there were some units in the 2AD that did go support the Big Red One.

The reason that they were DRMO'd in 94 is likely that they were replaced by 5 Tons. I remember that they had been working on that just as I was getting out in Oct of 1994.

 

[Old2AD63B]

I just remembered what the deal was on the paint. We painted only only the rear bumpers and corners of the front bumpers in Fort Polk and spray painted on 5ID 105FSB. Then when we got to Hood we painted the 2AD 502FSB.

Regarding the movie studio loan....you might contact The Movie Studios at Las Colinas.

6301 North O'Connor Road, Building One
Irving, TX 75039-3537
972-869-FILM
debbie@studioatlascolinas.com

I believe they are the closest movie studio to Fort Hood. (Home of Prison Break)

 

[emmado22]

Deleted.

 

[Armada]

Why deleted?

 

[emmado22]

I need to do some research....... Will report findings soon.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Hmm. I have a feeling that the next layer on the left bumper will decide this.

If it isn't the 105th FSB, then it was part of 2nd armored 503FSB and got surplussed before the unit switch.

If it is, then its history coincides with Old2AD63B's history.

I didn't have a chance to go check out the deuce today, way too rainy. Tomorrow I'll get out there and try to uncover more of the left bumper markings, provided the weather cooperates.

 

[CARNAC]

Not sure if you saw the post. YOU NEED TO READ THE 3RD POST FROM THE TOP (YES I AM YELLING). This is the official Army's registration for the last unit to own this vehicle.

AGAIN, DO NOT EQUATE THE NUMBER OF LAYERS OF TAN PAINT ON A BUMPER TO THE NUMBER OF LAYERS OF PAINT OVERALL ON THE VEHICLE.

Your photo shows the 502nd numbers applied with either enamel or CARC in a thick coat. Not surprised at this level of work from a Forward Support Maintenance Company. What has probably been wiped away with barely a notice was an 'el cheapo' layer of spray paint applied by the 62nd QMCO sometime around August 1992. It PROBABLY stayed with that unit until DRMO'd out in 1994.

Prior to the 502nd...don't know. With all due respect to my fellow veteran above, I personally don't think this truck came from Ft Polk unless it came from there, got 502nd bumper numbers and by August was with the 62nd QMCO (more than likely the 62nd received the truck anywhere from a few weeks to a few months before). The 62nd QMCO has been assigned to Ft Hood since they stood up in 1967 having them come from Ft Polk is a no-go. Based on this I do think the truck was with the original 502nd at Ft Hood and either shipped and returned from ODS or never went.

 

[emmado22]

AGAIN, DO NOT EQUATE THE NUMBER OF LAYERS OF TAN PAINT ON A BUMPER TO THE NUMBER OF LAYERS OF PAINT OVERALL ON THE VEHICLE.

Thats for sure. If SGM sees a crooked bumoper #, it gets repainted. Over and over and over until it is to his liking........ Been there, done that, and got the T Shirt.....