Need Tire Advise

[Gunfighter97]

Hello! I have a 5 ton 4x4 International Loadstar, formerly US Army, needing tires. I plan to use the truck to haul off highway and shorter distances on highway. Its top speed is probably only 55-60 MPH. Tires will need to perform in pine forests with muddy, rutted county roads. Area has a lot of basalt rock on some of the higher altitude trails, notorious locally for eating OHV tires. I don't plan to put on a ton of mileage, so a tire that can go a long time without rotting is desireable.

The truck currently has 20" firestone RH5* "widow maker" rims, which I am not going to use. I may not be married now, but hopefully I will be some day and don't want to tempt fate. It's a 6 lug on 8 3/4" circle hub. I have a set of vintage firestone 22.5x6.5 radial type wheels. I'd like to carry two spares on the rig and also hope to find a tire that fits the bill and is all position. I want to be able to put one spare anywhere on the truck. The more agressive looking tread, the better

I know NOTHING about tires this big, so if I need to be educated on anything Ive said above, please dont hesitate!

I think the tire size I need is a 9R22.5? But am not totally sure. I dont think anything bigger will fit on the rims and have enough space between duals. This is also my first dually. Budd pattern lugs. Nowhere around here seems to sell anything big enough or in load range bigger than E.

Top priority is a rig thats SAFE in any of the previously mentioned trails, roads etc. At least as safe as is possible as long as I'm driving. . .

Thanks!

 

[msgjd]

The truck currently has 20" firestone RH5* "widow maker" rims, which I am not going to use.

first of all, your truck should've come with split-lockring rims or the later 3-piece rims, not actual widowmakers .. When i was at FLW in the late-70's, that's what the 1960's-70's Loadstars were wearing... I don't recall ever seeing either of the 2 styles of actual widowmaker on a 1960's-70's truck unless someone took them off a 1940's-50's truck

Pictured below is an actual "split-rim" widowmaker of the version having a solid lockring .. I have a dozen medium to heavy IH 1950's trucks with this type and have been personal with them for over 50 years.. Unfortunately for my occasional wives during most of those years, i am still here .

If you indeed have the other style of widowmaker, the one where 1/3 of it locks into the 2/3 section, yikes !! (although the largest i had seen of those were for 17")

And never ignore the added performance of tire chains in aggressive off-road in any season



Being your priority is off-road, severe-duty, and you want long-lasting tires, have you looked into bias tube-type 12-ply or 14-ply snow/mud tires? Or Construction or Ag tires of same size and ply rating ? (grader/loader/etc)
They are going to last longer than today's radials as long as your not road-running much at speed .. Nothing more enraging than buying (in my case) ten new tubeless radials that in 6 years start cracking and have sidewall leaks while the tread is still like-new

Max size on your vintage of Loadstars is 10:00x20 (10:00Rx22.5 tubeless) .. When i was "in," the Loadstar 1600's and 1700's had 9:00x20's.. 10:00's will fit but may rub the fender when turning .. Most of the heavy-versions of the 1800's had 10:00's , but it wasn't uncommon to see 900's overall.. 11:00's will fit the 1800's but you might find they rub the fender or frame when you turn.. Maybe you have the clearance, being yours is a 4x4, and I can't tell from your icon what series your truck is .

If you insist on changing out your rims, you will need to watch for rim width and dish depth, else they could interfere with the springs, steering, and tie rod ends..

There are a few companies making 1000x20 bias with aggressive tread .. (I am assuming your truck is an 1800)



... and 1000x20 construction types

 

[Gunfighter97]

first of all, your truck should've come with split-lockring rims or the later 3-piece rims, not actual widowmakers .. When i was at FLW in the late-70's, that's what the 1960's-70's Loadstars were wearing... I don't recall ever seeing either of the 2 styles of actual widowmaker on a 1960's-70's truck unless someone took them off a 1940's-50's truck

Pictured below is an actual "split-rim" widowmaker of the version having a solid lockring .. I have a dozen medium to heavy IH 1950's trucks with this type and have been personal with them for over 50 years.. Unfortunately for my occasional wives during most of those years, i am still here .

If you indeed have the other style of widowmaker, the one where 1/3 of it locks into the 2/3 section, yikes !! (although the largest i had seen of those were for 17")

And never ignore the added performance of tire chains in aggressive off-road in any season

View attachment 943821

Being your priority is off-road, severe-duty, and you want long-lasting tires, have you looked into bias tube-type 12-ply or 14-ply snow/mud tires? Or Construction or Ag tires of same size and ply rating ? (grader/loader/etc)
They are going to last longer than today's radials as long as your not road-running much at speed .. Nothing more enraging than buying (in my case) ten new tubeless radials that in 6 years start cracking and have sidewall leaks while the tread is still like-new

Max size on your vintage of Loadstars is 10:00x20 (10:00Rx22.5 tubeless) .. When i was "in," the Loadstar 1600's and 1700's had 9:00x20's.. Most of the 1800's had 10:00's.. 11:00's will fit but you might find they rub the fender or frame when you turn.. But maybe you have the clearance, being yours is a 4x4..

If you insist on changing out your rims, you will need to watch for rim width and dish depth, else they could interfere with the springs, steering, and tie rod ends..

There are a few companies making 1000x20 bias with aggressive tread

View attachment 943822

... and 1000x20 construction types

View attachment 943823

Thanks for the reply! I was recomended to go to tubeless tires with aluminum rims (good luck with this hub pattern) and bought the vintage 22.5x6.5 rims :/ I was also looking at buying some surplus M35 ring locks. Those ended up totalling way more than the 22.5s and then I found out they didn't even come with the rings, so I went the other way since they werent in great shape, not that these tubeless ones are new either but oh well. This truck doesn't have its original 8.25x20s on it, it has less than 5k original miles and the original wheels probably got nabbed for the tires at some point. These are recapped 2x over and bald.

Yes, the rims are the non gapped, inside ring, true RH5* Firestone widow makers. I found this out after I rolled one out of the back of the truck and held on to it as it bounced to a stop, took it to a tire shop where they told me what it was. The inside part of the rim unmounts from the outside and has no split in the ring. Is there a way to put tube tires on the 22.5s or have I already committed? I'd love to put Firestone All Tractions on it or something else with menacing looking claws (trucks name is Bear), but iirc I think their max speed is only like 35MPH lol. I need to be able to do 55 for an hour or two at a time at the absolute max. It may never even go that far.

The rims I bought are very similar "dish depth?" (I assume this is like back spacing?) And I think may be slightly narrower if not the same width as the ones that are mounted right now. The only reason I'm not sure is that there are 8.25x20 tires on the mounted rims and I havent measured. The dish will fit these drums (hecking enourmous) and theres enough room to clear I think. Most 10r22.5 tires I saw called for wider rims. Idk if you can get away with a narrower rim and still run duals. Theres lots of room though. I cant recall if this is for sure correct, you may remember but I want to say the 2wd Loadstars have spring outboard of the frame rails? These are slung durectly under the frame rails. I can almost sit on the axle in the wheel well behind the wheel with enough room to eat lunch comfortably lol
Edit: I really like those tires in the first pic! The ones on the front now are similar made by Remington. Gonna hang one up in the shop with the rim (deflated of course) and maybe make it into a giant clock.

 

[msgjd]

Yes, the rims are the non gapped, inside ring, true RH5* Firestone widow makers. Gonna hang one up in the shop with the rim (deflated of course) and maybe make it into a giant clock.

Yikes ! Run ! Some people have no issue with them if the locking surface isn't rusted/compromised.. But as "brave" as i have been over the years with the other true style of split rim as seen in my pic above, as well as split lockrings and 3-piece open-center rims, i would probably be chicken to even attempt your style of split rim

Is your truck an early 1600 ? ('62-65?) That may explain the 8-1/4's since the 160-series of the 1950's (same weight ranges as the subsequent 1600-series) came standard with 8-1/4's , 900's were an option and as I mentioned all the 1600's-1700's wore 900's when i was at FLW.. IIRC all of the Loadstars there had open-center split-lockring dayton's. Why your truck has RH5's is a mystery unless the army contract allowed for obsolete rims or they came off a much-older truck. Man oh man.

I received the old-school equivalent of a CDL-B sixteen months before I enlisted. I did not know the army notices such things and during my 3rd week of Basic i was made one of the four company drivers .. I thought it was great duty until discovering i had to make up for all daytime training missed, and that i would also be doing long nights running people to/from the airport, hospital, brigade HQ, overnight guard posts way out in nowhere land etc, and not get any sleep other than a catnap on the seat between runs, then to grab breakfast and zombie-march away with my company for a full day of fun.. OOF! .. The gravy job was running the supply sergeant around or picking up stuff with an IH 1800-series stake or the IH 1300-series 4x4 stake.. Also had to spend part of a day in the BN motor pool moving tires around after picking up a bunch of new commercial-tread 16's, 16-5's , 900 's and 1000x20's down at the supply depot fresh off the train .. I never saw any 8-1/4's to grab for you

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

Maybe this is overkill for what you're looking to do, but this is where I went with some of my trucks in the past:

1)Stockton Wheel out of Stockton, CA made some amazing 1/2" plate wheels for my M37. I'm in the "if it's worth doing it's worth over-doing" camp on things like that.

2)Colony Tire out of Norfolk,VA has some of the Best tire selection I've ever come across. And if you're not seeing what you're looking for on their ebay listings, wait/call them. They have a massive selection on hand. Not trying to steer business away from the SS community in recommending these folks but this is probably where I'll buy all tires for the rest of MV-related disease/disorder.

Good luck,
SJ/JD

 

[msgjd]

Is there a way to put tube tires on the 22.5s or have I already committed?

The rims I bought are very similar "dish depth?" (I assume this is like back spacing?)

I cant recall if this is for sure correct, you may remember but I want to say the 2wd Loadstars have spring outboard of the frame rails? These are slung durectly under the frame rails.

1: I have run tubes in tubeless radial & bias 22.5's with no issue .. They still make 22.5 bias tires, and 22.5 tubes rated for radial and bias

2: when i mentioned "dish depth" i meant the backspace as you call it , aka "offset"

3: Correct, 2wd Loadstar rear springs are mounted on outside edge of frame

I have a question: If I remember correctly, at FLW the 1600's & 1700's were dubbed "4-tons" and the 1800's were "5-Tons" .. Did not see any 4x4 Loadstars at the time.. You called yours a "5-ton" but your barn pic looks like a 1600.. Does your lower-dash plate designate "5-ton"? It would be quite interesting to know if the 1960's-70's 4x4 loadstars were built with a larger rear axle and additional spring leaves and rated for heavier loads than the 2wd of same model

I am aware 1950's IHC installed the next-larger-series truck axle & springs in the heaviest version within a smaller series. . ( HUH ??? What??) For example, i have a 1951 L184 , the heaviest model within the 180-series.. It sports a 190/191 axle and springs .. It can carry 7-ton loads like a 190/191.. It's little sister is a 1951 ex-US Army 5-ton L174 dump, the heaviest within the 170-series, which has the axle and spring stack found on a basic 180.. I also have a R161 and R164, the 164 having a noticeably-heavier axle & spring stack than the 161 .. This phenomenon also appears on examples of 120's and 130's I have. I have no idea if IH continued this practice on Loadstars like yours

 

[Gunfighter97]

Maybe this is overkill for what you're looking to do, but this is where I went with some of my trucks in the past:

1)Stockton Wheel out of Stockton, CA made some amazing 1/2" plate wheels for my M37. I'm in the "if it's worth doing it's worth over-doing" camp on things like that.

2)Colony Tire out of Norfolk,VA has some of the Best tire selection I've ever come across. And if you're not seeing what you're looking for on their ebay listings, wait/call them. They have a massive selection on hand. Not trying to steer business away from the SS community in recommending these folks but this is probably where I'll buy all tires for the rest of MV-related disease/disorder.

Good luck,
SJ/JD

I like overkill

Is your truck an early 1600 ? ('62-65?) That may explain the 8-1/4's since the 160-series of the 1950's (same weight ranges as the subsequent 1600-series) came standard with 8-1/4's , 900's were an option and as I mentioned all the 1600's-1700's wore 900's when i was at FLW.. IIRC all of the Loadstars there had open-center split-lockring dayton's. Why your truck has RH5's is a mystery unless the army contract allowed for obsolete rims or they came off a much-older truck. Man oh man.

so this rig is kindof an oddball. Its a july of 66 born on date marked on the line setting ticket. The truck is based on the pre 66 cab and has the inline six with the doghouse on the floor. Electrical is the pre 66 style firewall connections as well. Again, mileage is under 5k. Tires are recapped 2x over and bald. Pretty sure these were the leftovers of someone needing better wheels/tires.

1: I have run tubes in tubeless radial & bias 22.5's with no issue .. They still make 22.5 bias tires, and 22.5 tubes rated for radial and bias

2: when i mentioned "dish depth" i meant the backspace as you call it , aka "offset"

3: Correct, 2wd Loadstar rear springs are mounted on outside edge of frame

I have a question: If I remember correctly, at FLW the 1600's & 1700's were dubbed "4-tons" and the 1800's were "5-Tons" .. Did not see any 4x4 Loadstars at the time.. You called yours a "5-ton" but your barn pic looks like a 1600.. Does your lower-dash plate designate "5-ton"? It would be quite interesting to know if the 1960's-70's 4x4 loadstars were built with a larger rear axle and additional spring leaves and rated for heavier loads than the 2wd of same model

I am aware 1950's IHC installed the next-larger-series truck axle & springs in the heaviest version within a smaller series. . ( HUH ??? What??) For example, i have a 1951 L184 , the heaviest model within the 180-series.. It sports a 190/191 axle and springs .. It can carry 7-ton loads like a 190/191.. It's little sister is a 1951 ex-US Army 5-ton L174 dump, the heaviest within the 170-series, which has the axle and spring stack found on a basic 180.. I also have a R161 and R164, the 164 having a noticeably-heavier axle & spring stack than the 161 .. This phenomenon also appears on examples of 120's and 130's I have. I have no idea if IH continued this practice on Loadstars like yours

I say 5 ton because the ID plates figures work out to a 10k lb payload. I guess that probably includes passengers, fuel, gear, etc. So maybe around 4 tons by the time thats loaded?

 

[msgjd]

so this rig is kindof an oddball. Its a july of 66 born on date marked on the line setting ticket. The truck is based on the pre 66 cab and has the inline six with the doghouse on the floor. Electrical is the pre 66 style firewall connections as well. Again, mileage is under 5k. Tires are recapped 2x over and bald. Pretty sure these were the leftovers of someone needing better wheels/tires. I say 5 ton because the ID plates figures work out to a 10k lb payload. I guess that probably includes passengers, fuel, gear, etc. So maybe around 4 tons by the time thats loaded?

wow with the inline-6 it sure is an oddball !! I've never seen a 60's-70's Loadstar truck, military or otherwise, that didn't have a V345 or V390 under the hood..

But I certainly remember the howl of 1960's Loadstar school busses with inline-6's , no mistaking the screaming coming up the road 2 miles away

Does yours have a BD282 ? (distributor sticking up high on the side) , or is it a BD264 (distributor down low on the side)