Negative Battery Cable Design 002/003A

[Light in the Dark]

Ran the 002A for about two hours earlier (haven't put the new oil pressure switch in... was planning that later today) to charge up the batteries a bit. Was holding a 30-50% load the whole time, and I started to turn off the items in the house. It was down to minimal draw when I sat down, put my feet up... and she died.

Went out to a silent machine... DC breaker popped on the panel. Weird... couldn't get it to hold in any run position. I set to OFF and unplugged the primary fuel pump and set it to run on aux+... and I could hear the pump turn on. I went to start and it cranked for a tenth of a second and the whole thing went silent. Shut it all off and flip lights... no lights.

I have some of those plastic terminal covers (cut down) from an 802/803A over each of the batteries. Check all till I get to the rear negative. Sure enough, the green knob safety breakout has snapped in two, but was touching ever so slightly.

I know the last part (no crank) can be attributed to this, but would a cable shorting back to itself cause the breaker to pop for safety? I don't have time today to play on this further with people coming over.

Is there a better design on the market that accomplishes this same breakout (maybe from the marine industry) that I can use on this? Thanks

 

[Triple Jim]

If I understand your post correctly, your battery disconnect broke, causing an intermittent connection (not a short).

One series of events that I've heard about when the battery gets disconnected while running is it causes a ton of ripple on the DC from the charging system, which in turn blows one of the noise suppressing capacitors on the fuel pumps. The shorted capacitor then causes the DC breaker to trip. Once the capacitor is replaced or removed, things are normal again.

 

[Chainbreaker]

By "breakout" if you mean using a Battery Disconnect here is what I came up with:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...Crossover-Lead-Idea-for-generators&highlight=

I have it installed on 2 of my generators and it has proven very reliable and easy to use.

 

[Triple Jim]

I think that's the type he had that failed, but I'm not sure. Mine, like his, has a green knob, but looks very similar. I haven't had any trouble with mine.

 

[doghead]

I've had many problems with that type of disconnect.

I'll never use one again.

 

[Light in the Dark]

If I understand your post correctly, your battery disconnect broke, causing an intermittent connection (not a short).

Yes, the disconnect broke so the terminal still had the locking collar on it, but it was broken at the thinnest portion of the casting. I used the word short because I saw sparking at this touching joint and feared that it shorted out one of the pumps (or the inline EMI filter).

One series of events that I've heard about when the battery gets disconnected while running is it causes a ton of ripple on the DC from the charging system, which in turn blows one of the noise suppressing capacitors on the fuel pumps. The shorted capacitor then causes the DC breaker to trip. Once the capacitor is replaced or removed, things are normal again.

This is my concern. I installed (2) OEM Facets (with suppressors) only like two months ago... and have not more than 5 hours on the set since. I understand that suppressor might have saved my pump... but I am possible down that extra protection level. If it is dead, I will probably remove my new AUX pump and replace it with this unit without suppressor. Safer to keep it inline of the main pump, and have the unsuppressed unit on the aux line.

But we shall see after I get a new cable if its fried or not.

 

[Light in the Dark]

By "breakout" if you mean using a Battery Disconnect here is what I came up with:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...Crossover-Lead-Idea-for-generators&highlight=
I have it installed on 2 of my generators and it has proven very reliable and easy to use.

I had to fab up a cable special to hook the two batteries together (OEM job was not long enough), so I can't use something like this. Thanks though.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I think that's the type he had that failed, but I'm not sure. Mine, like his, has a green knob, but looks very similar. I haven't had any trouble with mine.

Yup, thats the part. It broken behind the terminal (where the top and bottom parts overlap, under the green knob).

 

[Light in the Dark]

I might use something like this instead (or a beefier version)

(link fixed)

https://www.amazon.com/WirthCo-2014...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AMM504AJGCTDJJ5KWJAJ

 

[Guyfang]

The army had lots of trouble with this connector. The idea is good, but the end product was less good. I helped one unit take them ALL off before going down range. They had them on all kinds of equipment. We got new connectors and did the old solder routine on them, with heatshrink. Some were a bit rough, but once you did 10-20 of them, the quality went up. Had someone decided to do this a few months before deployment, would have gone smoother.

 

[Light in the Dark]

The link has been updated to the stud style, which should more readily accept the ring terminal on the OEM cable.

 

[Light in the Dark]

The army had lots of trouble with this connector. The idea is good, but the end product was less good. I helped one unit take them ALL off before going down range. They had them on all kinds of equipment. We got new connectors and did the old solder routine on them, with heatshrink. Some were a bit rough, but once you did 10-20 of them, the quality went up. Had someone decided to do this a few months before deployment, would have gone smoother.

Are you referencing the bar style I linked to Guy, or the OEM unit which broke?

 

[Guyfang]

I might use something like this instead (or a beefier version)

https://www.amazon.com/WirthCo-20148-Battery-Doctor-Switch/dp/B000CQDRP2/ref=pd_sbs_263_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A9HHHC351V4ZYXPQVZGM

We tried something like this, and had even worse results. The solders always leave the battery post clamp loose, or over tighten it. When over tightened, the darn things cracked while running. Not good.

 

[Guyfang]

Are you referencing the bar style I linked to Guy, or the OEM unit which broke?

The one pictured in post #4.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Hmm.... well I'm not sure what to do now. I do believe this event has fried the suppressor though on my main pump, which I am kind of pissed about.

 

[Guyfang]

Being pissed is the mother of invention. Look until you find something, and not be satisfied with anything less than GOOD. You can just clip out the suppressor out and run without it. Do you use the gen set often? Think about it like this. If its for house back up, then everyone else has no power, and will not hear your fuel pump cluttering up the air waves. Then, you have time to find another that is cheaper. Or, has anyone ever given thought to replacing the suppressor?

 

[Light in the Dark]

No I don't use it often... home backup that I am just trying to get to a fully functioning state. But we are in the heart of the season where we lose power the most often. So I am pissed that its down again, but I do have a functional 803A with a jumpy fuel gauge and temp gauge that isnt reading true... and my 25 year old Honda eb5000, so I do have backup power. But I want my 002A online because it is the one that I intend on keeping long term.

I did not consider replacing it. Perhaps I need to review the Facet page to see if they list specs on the standard suppressor. The air waves I am not too worried about. The value of the inline filter to me is the one additional safety stop it brings to the performance of these beasts.

 

[Guyfang]

It would never have occurred to me to fix one in the army. I had a drawer with 10-12 in it at all times. But having been in SS a while, and seeing how many really smart guys there are here, and some of them reverse engineering things, well, why not? Might be an idea worth exploring.

I would not worry about the jumpy fuel gage. Could be the sending unit, indicator arm or the coil. Sometime the coil gets a break, or the arm is loose. And like I have said before, the gages are to be used with a grain of salt. Neither problem is a show stopper. Just aggravating.

 

[Triple Jim]

This is my concern. I installed (2) OEM Facets (with suppressors) only like two months ago... and have not more than 5 hours on the set since. I understand that suppressor might have saved my pump... but I am possible down that extra protection level. If it is dead, I will probably remove my new AUX pump and replace it with this unit without suppressor. Safer to keep it inline of the main pump, and have the unsuppressed unit on the aux line.

But we shall see after I get a new cable if its fried or not.

I don't see how an intermittent connection could have hurt anything on an 002A, other than a capacitor on a fuel pump. There's essentially nothing electronic in the generator, and a simple solenoid type fuel pump won't care about the bad connection. The capacitor on each pump is there to prevent RF noise to radio equipment, not to protect the pump. If one blew, remove it and the pump should run fine. You can replace the capacitor in the future if RF noise may be a problem, like if you operate ham radio nearby the generator while it's running.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Well I think this might be what I end up going with. Will just need to mount off the frame, and get some new wires from the post to this, and from this to the next post... but I think this is more in line with the quality of the machine it is being bolted to. Thoughts?

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0003/FR1003