New brake shoes or not?

[ivbeenrokd]

Okay, assembled back after adjusting the lower cams and it mad a small difference but not much. I went over to my other axle sitting in the floor that is still fully assembled and it spins more freely than this and it has both shafts in it!

I can hear the shoes dragging some (even though they're adjusted all the way in) and it make me wonder if I just need to drive it a mile or 2 and then check it again to see.

Anyone other thoughts?

I still find it odd that the shoes don't hang if I don't put the outer bearing and nut on but the farther I tighten it back it starts handing a lot.

 

[gringeltaube]

Something is not exactly where it should be... Try to determine where exactly the drum touches the lining- and why. There should be no interference at all, with the adjusters all IN.
Make sure that the lining is not protruding from the actual shoe's surface, at some point...

Take pics of what you find. And don't drive it like this, with the brake shoes un-adjusted!


G.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I've already gone for the day, but here is a picture I took yesterday after putting the shoes on one side. I won't be back over there until Tuesday, but I can get some more pictures of them then.. I may go ahead and put a set of old shoes back on to see if there is a difference.

 

[Dhallftworth]

Did you replace or regrease that inner bearing?

 

[zout]

I just have to ask after reading from #1 post - were the drums checked and were the thickness tolerances checked to allowable tolerance ?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Don't just think "shoes rubbing on the drum", or "something is wrong with the bearings". Is that wheel cyl guard mashed somewhere? Looks like its kinked. Is there another hub off? Try swapping it. Look for ANY signs of rubbing on the hub/drum.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I agree with Zout. Is this the hub that had chewed brake linings? Measure/compare it to another drum. Remember that thread "don't assume the military did it right".

 

[ivbeenrokd]

Did you replace or regrease that inner bearing?

I packed both inner and both outer bearings.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

Don't just think "shoes rubbing on the drum", or "something is wrong with the bearings". Is that wheel cyl guard mashed somewhere? Looks like its kinked. Is there another hub off? Try swapping it. Look for ANY signs of rubbing on the hub/drum.

Wheel cylinder guard is bent a little but I think that it was just knocked with a tool while working. I've still got both rear hub/drum assemblies temporarily on so it would be easy to swap them. However, after final adjustment, they are both about equally too tight. The passenger side is still probably a little worse than the driver, but not by much.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I haven't measured the drums precisely, but I do think the inside is around 15 inches. This is the same side mentioned in the first post.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Well, how are you installing the hub nuts? I usually tighten the first one till you can just barely feel the hub click back and forth, but see no motion. Then install the star washer and finally the second nut. Once you tighten the second nut, it will take up that slop. If you are un-sure, err on the side of loose, no bearing has EVER gone bad for being loose, but they go bad real quick if too tight.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I always tighten the first one pretty tight and then back it off until the hubs spins reasonably smooth (considering the size). Then install the washer and 2nd nut. I've done at least 12-15 (including the front 2 a couple of days ago) and never had an issue until now. These 2 are really tight without explanation for why. In hindsight I wish I had made note of how easily they spun before starting.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

Pictures

 

[gimpyrobb]

So did you try putting a different hub/brake drum combo on to see if it still was hard to turn/rubbed? I can't remember.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I haven't actually tried that. I don't have much faith in that changing anything mainly because when I tightened these two years ago after flipping the hubs everything was fine then. I'm thinking about just pulling the shoes off and seeing how it is without the shoes.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I never thought of that. Yes I'd try that too.

 

[Hainebd]

Couple of issues I found. Front wheel hub nuts backed of. Bearings looked good but upon righting hub nuts tire would not spin freely. Took apart pulled cup and cone out. Found inner bearing stack 50 thousands short of new stack. This causes seal to be to tight. Replaced bearing and seal issue resolved. Second new shoes rivets not set allowing lining to stick up and drag.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

Okay, so I've definitely learned a lot during this ordeal:

Lesson 1: read the TM and do exactly what it says.
Lesson 2: deviate from what the TM says when needed.

Here's the end result:
Today I started by verifying I had everything on correctly. I did.
I then tightened the hub nut just snug. With the upper shoe adjustments completely turned in I then adjusted the lower cam back and forth on each side finding the spot where the drum would spin most freely. I then adjusted the hub nut using a combination of my past approach, Gimpy's approach, and what the TM says. This turned out to give the desired end result.

Adjusting the brakes after the hubs were done was a different story. I battled back and forth on every shoe between the upper and lower adjustments. My end result there is that the adjustments are close to the recommendation but not exactly and now the drums spin tighter than I'd like. I plan to drive it around the parking lot like this a time or 2 and then check them again.

Anyone that feels like they have the magic answer on the shoe adjustment process I'd love to hear. It seemed like when the top would get right the bottom would be too tight or if the bottom was right the top would have too much gap.

Thank you everyone for the help and advice.

John

 

[welldigger]

I found that while adjusting my shoes it worked best if I alternated between top and bottom a little at a time. If I tried to do just one adjustor things got all out of whack. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Hainebd]

I can say that adjusting the brakes on a deuce as simple as it is is a PIA. That said if done rite you will have great stoping power. Done wrong and you can lose your brakes entirely.