• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

new deisel feul

Ferroequinologist

Resident railroad expert
Steel Soldiers Supporter
4,807
736
113
Location
Liberty Hill, SC
PS I don't run anything but new clean diesel in my trucks. When 2012 brakes loose then run all the crap.
Better to have a system to filter, and a good idea of blends in place prior to needing it in an emergancy! The 7Ps. I have several pieces of fuel testing equipment. It was my job for 4yrs in the Navy. I blend until I get close to the same flashpoint, and viscosity. It is usually slightly higher viscosity, but that's ok.
 

stumps

Active member
1,700
11
38
Location
Maryland
I always find the sulfur debates interesting. Sulfur is a natural component of crude oil. It is extremely difficult to remove the sulfur from gasoline and diesel fuel. The latent sulfur in gasoline is what causes the rotten eggs smell, and the tear inspiring acid smell from cars with catalytic converters. The latent sulfur in diesel fuel is what eats the bearing shells out of a diesel engine, and shreds exhaust pipes and mufflers... (turbos too! ) and makes your eyes water when you follow a misadjusted diesel truck.

Sulfur has never been added to any fuel. Not gasoline, not diesel. The engine manufacturers have spent years studying the effects of sulfur on internal combustion engines, and have concluded that as long as you keep the sulfur very low (0.1%), and keep the oil changed it can be tolerated. The oil companies plead and cry whenever you ask them to limit the sulfur in fuels. They sponsor studies that try to show benefits of sulfur, and completely forget to mention the extreme harm sulfur causes to engines, and the environment.

Here is a quote out of an engineering text I used in school, "Internal Combustion Engines", by Obert (p274):
SULFUR. Hydrocarbon fuels may contain free sulfur, hydrogen sulfide, and other sulfur compounds. The sulfur content is determined by measuring the amount of sulfur dioxide formed by combustion and translating this into an equivalent mass of free sulfur (although the sulfur in the fuel may exist in a number of various compounds). Sulfur or sulfur compounds are objectionable for several reasons. In some forms, notably free sulfur and hydrogen sulfide, the sulfur is a corrosive element of the fuel that can corrode fuel lines, carburetors, and injection pumps. In all forms, the sulfur will unite with oxygen to form sulfur dioxide that, in the presence of water at low temperatures, may form sulfurous acid. However, the exhaust gases of the engine usually leave the engine and the exhaust pipe at high temperatures and therefore formation of acid does not occur. On the other hand, the gases remaining in the cylinder or in the exhaust line on shutdown are exposed to the necessary conditions for forming an acid: low temperature and water. The same comments can be made for winter operation and for blow by products in the crankcase. It is also entirely possible for the sulfur dioxide to unite with other substances to form products that could cause engine wear even though temperatures are high. Since sulfur has a low ignition temperature, the presence of sulfur can reduce the self-ignition temperature, thus promoting knock in the SI (spark ignition) engine and tending to decrease knock in the CI (compression ignition) engine. It is found that the response of the SI fuel to tetra-ethyl lead is reduced by the presence of sulfur....
In every case where sulfur is mentioned in this fine engineering textbook, it is in terms of maximums to limit the corrosive tendencies of sulfur. Never as a lubricant for the injectors, bearings, or any other part of the engine.

Lubrication of the injectors is entirely done by the fuel. Gasoline, and diesel are both light weight mineral oils. They are very slippery. As is typical of alkane series, of which they belong, the longer the molecule, the thicker and more lubricious it is... diesel fuels (hexadecane, aka cetane) are slipperier than gasolines (octane). Mineral oils are slipperier still.

If you are worried about injector lubrication, add some oil to your fuel. Low sulfur fuel is better for your engine in every way.

-Chuck
 

nhdiesel

New member
763
3
0
Location
Milan, NH
And for every report put out by oil companies, there is an opposing report put out by environmentalists telling how great ULSD is and why sulfur should be reduced to nothing. I'm not an engineer but I have gone to school to be a technician. I also am a diesel enthusiast, and I try to do what's right for my vehicles.

Since I have no lab and no equipment to do any real studies, I can only use the information I can gather. When I installed the 4bt Cummins into my Durango I was really curious how long it would take to pay for itself with fuel savings, so I kept careful track of my mileage numbers. When I installed it, I was able to drive it for nearly a year before ULSD got to my area.

For that first year I got 30mpg in warm weather, 28mpg in cold. Then ULSD got here. My mileage immediately dropped to 27mpg in warm weather, and 22-23 in cold. I ran several tanks keeping track of those numbers. Then I started adding 1 qt of new motor oil each tankful. My mileage immediately went up to 29mpg in warm weather. As long as I added a qt of new motor oil, I stayed at 29mpg.

Another thing I noticed, since I knew this engine quite well by this time, is that the engine was noisier with the ULSD. As soon as I added the oil to the tank you couldn't hear the pump nearly as much.

Maybe I'm not doing anything to help my engine, but the mileage increase and quieter engine tell me something is improved by adding lubricity to the ULSD. Sulfur may not be good for other parts of an engine, but considering the cost of an injection pump and injectors, those are the items i want to protect as well as I can.

Jim
 

wreckerman893

Possum Connoisseur
15,617
2,010
113
Location
Akenback acres near Gadsden, AL
Just wondering what percentages of each you are using. I have several hundred gallons of WVO and a few of WMO.
Also does one need to be concerned bout storing WMO for extended periods of time.
When I make up a 100 gallon batch of "Wreckerman's Special Deuce Elixer" I use 30 gal UMO/30 gal of WVO/30 gal of diesel
and 10 gals of reg gas. I have a 12 volt pump that I use to mix it all up with once I get it in the container. When I gets cold I
cut back on the VWO since it is more likely to thicken up.

I filter at all stages of recovery/ transfering/ blending and putting the fuel in the tank.
 

Recovry4x4

LLM/Member 785
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
34,012
1,804
113
Location
GA Mountains
Hey Richard, what was that other product you used in the elixer? Lacquer thinner? Enamel Reducer? Stoddard solvent? It was something potent wasn't it?
 

Josh

Active member
1,678
12
38
Location
Portland, Oregon
Ive been running a 90/10 blend of WMO and stale gasoline. Ive only been to 3 gas stations in the last 5 months, and my deuce sees between 20-30 miles per day average, Lately Ive been doing 80+ comutes with it.

Other then it not wanting to start in the morning when its cold, Ive seen no side effects.
 

stumps

Active member
1,700
11
38
Location
Maryland
Mineral oil or liquid petroleum is created from the distillation of petroleum, as a by-product of gasoline.
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say... Crude oil is a hydrocarbon soup that has just about everything in it, depending on which flavor of crude it is. Fractional distillation simply allows the petroleum companies to separate the crude oil out into its various components... Such as butane, white gas, gasoline, kerosene, diesel, mineral oil, vasoline, paraffin...tar, asphaltum...

If what you want is gasoline, then diesel, mineral oil and all the rest are byproducts. If what you want is diesel, than gasoline, etc. are the byproducts. The oil companies have a customer for everything they can make out of the crude oil.... though sometimes they cannot afford to move the gaseous hydrocarbons from the well head to the market, so they burn it off.

There is another process called cracking that helps turn heavier products (longer carbon chains) into lighter products( shorter carbon chains).... for instance, mineral oils and waxes into gasoline... and you can also go the other way and turn lighter products, such as butane, into gasoline and diesel. All it costs is energy.

-Chuck
 

ehasson

New member
11
0
0
Location
Gastonia, NC
Thank you for the info. I do have what may be a strange question, what about used synthetic motor oil, can that be used?

In any of my normal size tanks (20 gal or so) I try to put a quart of motor oil in (new, used...doesn't matter) per tank. For a Deuce I'd put a couple quarts in. No measurement is necessary...they love motor oil and trans fluid, just dump some in and run it. It doesn't take a lot to give lubricity, but using more will save a little at the pump.

Ask any of your friends who do their own oil changes to save you the oil. Pour it through a paint filter or some cheesecloth and put it in your tank, and enjoy the cost savings.

Jim
 

TexAndy

Active member
1,427
15
38
Location
Bee County, Texas
Better to have a system to filter, and a good idea of blends in place prior to needing it in an emergancy! The 7Ps. I have several pieces of fuel testing equipment. It was my job for 4yrs in the Navy. I blend until I get close to the same flashpoint, and viscosity. It is usually slightly higher viscosity, but that's ok.

What kind of mixes do you like best?

What kind of gasoline and waste motor oil mix approximates diesel's flashpoint and viscosity the closest?
 

nhdiesel

New member
763
3
0
Location
Milan, NH
Thank you for the info. I do have what may be a strange question, what about used synthetic motor oil, can that be used?
I don't try it. Some say synthetic will burn, but most of the info I have read warns not to try it. I'm sure if its just a small amount mixed in it wouldn't be too bad, but I wouldn't want to put a few gallons into a tank.

Jim
 

stumps

Active member
1,700
11
38
Location
Maryland
Thank you for the info. I do have what may be a strange question, what about used synthetic motor oil, can that be used?
Of course! Synthetic motor oils are just hydrocarbon oils, with a better controlled chemical composition. Your engine will burn it just as nicely as any dino motor oil.

-Chuck
 

bigtruck

New member
35
0
0
Location
oklahoma city
Regarding sulfur content, and it's affect on lubricity-- the element of sulfur does not increase/decrease lubricity by itself... From my experience with machining oils for cutting/grinding/honing of stainless steels (with high nickel content) or nickel based alloys, I've learned that oils with high sulfur content produce less friction/heat. It's actually proven that the sulfur reacts with the nickel to produce a 'slick film' between the contact surfaces. I suspect this same phenomenon could be applied to the friction/heat produced inside a diesel fuel injection pump,, which leads me to believe that increased sulfur content would indeed reduce wear on components (increasing longevity of the pump).
 

stumps

Active member
1,700
11
38
Location
Maryland
Sulfur additives are great for lubricating extreme pressure bearings, such as the hypoid or worm gears in a differential... or under the cutting edge of a tool. However, the injectors, although they are handling high pressure fuel, are not in need of extreme pressure lubrication additives.

Sulfur in diesel fuel, and gasoline, is there only because it is very expensive to remove, and if kept low enough doesn't cause too much harm.

In a diesel engine, it combines with oxygen, and water vapor (from combustion of the hydrocarbons) and makes sulfurous acid. The sulfurous acid gets into the crankcase and eats the copper out of the high pressure bearing shells, and into the exhaust system and eats up the exhaust system. The sulfurous acid also etches the cylinder walls, making them porous, and increases the wear on the rings, and the oil consumption.

Sulfur in diesel fuel is the reason diesel engines need special motor oils. The oils have to be able to buffer (neutralize) the acid to prevent damage to the internal engine parts. Get rid of the sulfur and things get much better.

-Chuck
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks