New guy to SS, my deuce mods so far..*pics*

[spicergear]

1974 M35A2. I pulled a perfectly good 478hour turbo multifuel and put in a 225hp,V8 3208/1160 CAT Diesel...636 cubes of grunt. That included new mounts, custom 3.5" SS .100 wall pipes to connect with SS flexpipe to TWO stacks. One is the factory passenger side stack and the other is a pass side factory stack and mirror brackets modified to fit the driver's side in same back of fender/front of cab design. Yes, if friggin' loud with the same amount of muffler the multifuel's had. Heh,heh. I layed a Mack filter housing down on the passenger side fender somewhat like the five tons and plumbed it into the engine bay. The CAT's bell is deeper than the multifuels so I had to make a custom T/O bearing that was 7/8" longer. I also took the factory Multifuel aluminum adapter plate for the SAE bell housings and redrilled it to accept the CAT's one size smaller bell pattern. This all went well and I reloaded the bay with the 1800Lb CAT. That truck was never...ever designed in mind of 'V' style big motor. It barely fit with frame clearance on pass side for exhaust and steering column clearance.

I also had a parts deuce around that I had rescued from a recycler's and it had a T-case with a REB manual shift kit (and from what I understand from Memphis Equipment...a gear correction kit) and a PTO out the back of it. I wanted the choice of when my front axle was pulled in so I swapped out the 'sprag' style case and put this other beauty in. I also rebuilt the E-brake and put on a new cable at the same time.

Recently, I acquired a 20,000Lb Garwood from a 5 ton and put it on the nose. These winches are much larger than the stock 10K Garwoods, and the job had to be...well, somewhat stealthy to fit that bohemoth on the truck and not look stupid. Since I put the CAT V8 in, I've had a decent amount of space from the fan to the fan shroud as the V8 is shorter than the inline 6. I moved the radiator back about 5-6" and slid the big winch back until it's back strap was even with the front of the front crossmember. I added 7-5/8" extension to the frame and got it back together. It's in and looks GREAT!!! The bumper is not turned upside down like with the factory winches as teh 5 tons mount a little differently and slightly lower. I still have to make up the drive. I've got a pile of fresh 5/8" cable and a new clevis end just waiting for it.

I'll paint it at some point...
Here's a pic with 10,100Lbs of Red oak

Pre-winch.

Winch going on.

 

[red devils dude]

that is so cool <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve">
if I had a shop id do a cat swap but I dont so
maby this could be a sticky for engine swaps.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Awesome swap, absolutely awesome! Keep us posted on your updates!<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_approve.gif" alt="Approve">

 

[stefos]

This is my Christmas dream!!!

 

[Desert Rat]

I want one, I want one, Pleeeeease Daddy pleeeease I'll clean my room I promise!!!!!<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" alt="Wink">

 

[Trango]

Sweet! I'll hopefully be doing this very soon. I have about a week left of work to get the crawler project running and driving, and once that's done, I am doing the same swap, albeit with a 6855 .695 OD tranny on the back of the 3208 (just got the tranny Dec 18th!!!).

So, where does the compressor sit now? And, if you would guess, what was the clearance issue on the hood - as in, how many inches was it off?

Finally, did you need to outboard the steering at all?

Tom Fastest (my inspiration for this same swap!!!) recommended a 3" Body lift, since he had the same hood clearance problems, as well as the issue with the bigger trans.

So, how's the stock power over hills? I am considering throwing a turbo on the 3208 (already got a mild turbo in a box to mount on the back of the engine)... I figure it would be easy as pie to mount it up and push some oil through it for cooling and lube - my 3208 is already set up for external oil filter, so it'll be easy to throw in some ports for the oil into the mounting.

Genius, by the way. How many weeks to finish the swap?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Bob

 

[spicergear]

Bob,
If you look at the third picture, it's a top view of the motor, you'll see to the lower left, just beside the 'lower' valve cover...the top of the compressor. I made a custom mount out of 1/2"x 3" bar stock and a really healthy hunk of angle iron.

In that same pic, if you look at where the alternator is mounted, that mount that I bolted it to is originally where the compressor mounted. It would have been about 3" too high. The trucks are big enough as-is so I didn't want to lift anything.

I kept the stock steering. I just barely kept the stock steering. My exhaust manifolds that came with the motor aim the exhaust down. I didn't feel like searching around for other manifolds that would have had a better direction...like to the side, and would have been a little easier. My motor is just slighly over to the passenger side of the truck so that the exhaust manifold on the driver's side would clear the outer tube on the steering column. I actually dimpled the outer tube to give me back about 3/8". It's a very, VERY tight fit...don't make any mistake about that.

The 3208/1160 CAT pulls very well. 225hp and 636 cubes worth of rotating mass and torque are far better than the stock motor. Empty, the truck is actually quick...you know...relatively speaking that is. It gets up and goes without having to drive it like you hate to make it accelerate well. With the 10,100Lb load of wood, I could pull 5th gear OD easily on flat and modest hills, but downshifting and keeping the revs will lead to a safisfactory pace...and that's a big load.

A couple of notes I can see worth mentioning:
-My motor has a rear sump pan and is back to the firewall using the stock trans location/jackshaft and just has room for suspension articulation and clearance to the top of the Rockwell.
-Most 3208's have a front sump which will require some heavy thought. IF you plan to turbo it, most 3208 turbos are located above the bell, behind the motor and will need decent firewall clearance to fit. This will also help the front sump issue but create other issues. You can't move the tranny that far ahead and expect to shift it. IF your 6855 is decently longer and has the shifter located further back, this may be the ticket for you.
-Steering most of the CAT motors will have a PS pump on them already as most big trucks ('cept these) have power steering. I've looked at many PS boxes on larger trucks and to slap one on the outside of the frame and hook to the factory connecting link shouldn't be that big a deal.
-Again...a tight fit.

Tom

 

[big mike]

wow, you made that huge 5 ton winch fit in there nicely. that whole project was a very clean swap. im very impressed with your work

 

[Trango]

Tom,

Thank you so much for the excellent reply. If I don't have to lift the cab and or futz with the steering, I'm way ahead of the game. And yes, from what I can see, the 6855 is a bit longer than the 3053A, so that will help as well!

Just for reference, the desire to turbo comes from the altitude. I'll be pulling regularly over vail pass (got a rockbuggy on 53's I just built), and the thin air at 11k ft isn't kind on a big diesel sucker!

Final question - 12 or 24? I'm leaning towards replacing the starter and alternator (I'd leave the fuel solenoid and run it off just one battery) with 24v versions; after all, it's either that or replace everything else. (I wonder if I can use the stock mil starter on the 3208???????)!

Man, am I fired up for this. I keep dreaming about top speeds I could have only dreamed about with the 465 and .85 OD!

Cheers
Bob

 

[spicergear]

Mike, Thanks!

Bob,
Ah, the turbo reason...good reason! If I were going to put a turbo on, I'd go with a twin disc clutch too. I think the higher turbo HP and TQ would have you slipping in third not too long after.

I hate to throw this at your thought process sort of late in the game, but you may want to look for a CAT inline with a Jake on it it if you're going to be doing all that mountain climbing. Diesel don't compression brake well and the 3208 doesn't have a Jake kit available or exhaust braking. Just food for thought.

The truck is 24 Volt. My stock L/N Alternator was fried so I picked up a 1-wire 24V jobbie for it. I have the fuel shut off solenoid running of 12V and a simple toggle switch from one battery. I don't know if the stock multifuel starters will work on the CAT's. My starter is a 12V starter that I'm running 24V though. It should live like that for a long time seeing how it's lower amperage. It's pretty neat...that thing sounds like an air starter from a rig!

Oh, the 3208 is rated at 2800RPM engine load. Me thinks that's the same as the multifuel. That was another reason for me to grab that design engine.

 

[spicergear]

Mike,
Do you see in the first couple of winch pics that the winch brake housing is empty? I took the guts out of it. Then, the second to last pic I don't know if you noticed that the empty housing thing is gone. I personally can't find a good reason for the winch brakes and think the added casting is not needed...and in this case would have been in the way. I chucked it up in a four jaw chuck on the lathe and turned it down until it cut the whole housing part off and just left the bearing/seal retaining plate like it has on the other side.

 

[Trango]

Originally posted by spicergear

Mike, Thanks!

Bob,
Ah, the turbo reason...good reason! If I were going to put a turbo on, I'd go with a twin disc clutch too. I think the higher turbo HP and TQ would have you slipping in third not too long after.

Hrm - I might just have to change out the clutch anyway. What's the "angle" on cheap clutches for these applications? Any online sources, or should I just suck it up and hit a driveline shop?

I hate to throw this at your thought process sort of late in the game, but you may want to look for a CAT inline with a Jake on it it if you're going to be doing all that mountain climbing. Diesel don't compression brake well and the 3208 doesn't have a Jake kit available or exhaust braking. Just food for thought.

I am thinking of just making an exhaust brake. I figure I can use an emergency brake can from an airbraked rear axle (the kind that springs shut, which in this case will be open, until you apply 35 psi or whatever it is, so I'll make mine air activated).

I'll put some high alloy steel inside a 4" steel tube and work out some sort of bushing system. Should be fairly straightforward.

The truck is 24 Volt. My stock L/N Alternator was fried so I picked up a 1-wire 24V jobbie for it. I have the fuel shut off solenoid running of 12V and a simple toggle switch from one battery. I don't know if the stock multifuel starters will work on the CAT's. My starter is a 12V starter that I'm running 24V though. It should live like that for a long time seeing how it's lower amperage. It's pretty neat...that thing sounds like an air starter from a rig!

Ahhh. Good to know! I spent $250 having my starter totally rebuilt when I was still planning on converting everything to 12v, so that's DEFINITELY good news!

Oh, the 3208 is rated at 2800RPM engine load. Me thinks that's the same as the multifuel. That was another reason for me to grab that design engine.

... and my engine, tranny, and rad were $2000 so those were more reasons to run this.

Cheers
Bob

PS I had repowered deuce dreams last night. <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" alt="Cool">

 

[spicergear]

I happened to have 13" clutch and pressure plate from a Medium Duty Chevy...like C60-C70. It fit the CAT flywheel so I picked up a new one from Advance Auto Parts. Usually cheaper than a NAPA set by quite a few bucks. Think it was in the $170 range but can't remember for sure. Oh, heh,heh...do yourself a favor and slap some type of baffle in the exhaust. WHEW that puppy is LOUD!!!

 

[hot rod deuce]

Hey this seems to be the land of 3208's i was wondering if anyone is interested in a 250 HP 3208 its all stock just the turbo application its in a Terragator with an allison auto behind it. i have a N/A motor thats been rebuilt but was stuck in the closet in favor for a new 250 HP the plan was to use one as a swap but when i found a 5.9 cummins cheap and had twice as much fun with

how does the 3208 behave behind a 5 speed? are the splits to large?

There is one key to long life of a 3208, DONT LUG IT. run it on the gov. all day but dont lug it or you will have a hand grenade on yourhands, or just a head gasket if your lucky. It all depends on what update packages your motor is equiped with

never the less looks good, press on with the choppin and hackin, i love to see it

 

[spicergear]

Third to fourth is still a big step when loaded, but fourth to fifth is really nice and keeps the RPM up! Good word on the CAT and lugging...I love to spin a motor!

 

[Desert Rat]

Spicergear,
A serious question after my whimsical observation and "Christmas Wish" note. Did you keep the PS or remove it and put other equipment in its position? Second, I noticed on "Millenium Reo" the driver side exhaust went over the engine to meet up with the exhaust on the passenger side. Were there reasons why you went dual? Would a single exhaust make installing a turbo easier? What about intercooling? Is there an intercooler to fit on the intake of a 3208? And finally, how is the fuel consumption? Was there an improvement over the 465? Will larger tires detract from the turque curve and fuel economy? And I promise this is the last question for now, where is the sweet spot in the 3208? 2400 rpm? 2600?

 

[Trango]

Originally posted by Desert Rat

Would a single exhaust make installing a turbo easier?

Hey DR,

The turbo for the 3208 sits on the back of the engine, laterally in the middle of the intake manifold and between the back ends of the valve covers. It's all the way aft on the engine, and has dual exhaust inputs.

SO, if you want to put the cat turbo on, you basically end up having single exhaust whether you wanted it or not.

Cheers
Bob

 

[Desert Rat]

Trango,
Ok, but how does the turbo impact performance and fuel economy? Plus, is there an intercooler option as well?

 

[spicergear]

DR, My pump had two fittings busted off in it and I needed that postion to tension the belts up to the compressor. I packed that slinky full of grease!!! HA-HA!!!! Really. If I come across a couple small pillow blocks maybe I'll pull the pump and put an idler looking idler there. Or if I go PS, I know where there's another identical pump to slap in there.

I went duals because, to me, that's how a truck with a diesel should look. Smacking smoke up a hill outta both stacks has always seemed right to me. This swap just presented the opportunity to do so and it would have been a plumbing headache to get the driver's side back over as well.

I've seen marine 3208's intercooled and it looked like something that would be very possible here. Trango is dead on, turbo is at back of motor over bell and motor must be spaced forward accordingly. In turn, hooking turbo outlet to factory single stack would be a snap in comparison to my dually job.

I have no idea on fuel consumption. The truck is a weekend work truck/toy so I don't keep track.

Larger tires should almost always detract from the torque curve as a mechanical reaction to the now taller ratio. I would, however, expect fuel consumption to be no worse and possibly slightly better. The 225hp of my 1160 (3208 based) CAT seems not to be struggling at all to pull the truck and I think the larger tires wouldn't be too much more to ask of it. I kind of look at it like this; my multifuel was driven like cruise control was a cinder block. The CAT is alot more cubes to feed but you don't need to give it as much.

The tach drives are of different speeds between the two engines so I don't run a tach. It's rated at load 2800rpm and govern'ed. You won't over rev it. If you put it to the governor it doesn't matter, but you don't need to drive it like that. In fact, I only went to the governor once now getting a jump on fourth gear's larger step with a heavy load. Diesels don't care. You can't just rev the guts out of it like a gasser.

Keep the questions coming, if I can help...I will!

 

[Desert Rat]

SG;
I had two 3406 4&1/4 CATs in my 88 Cornbinder and 94 Cornbinder (Navistar/Internationals for those not in trucking). They were a "B" and "D" respectively and were also the last of the mechanical CATs no thanks to the EPA. So I'm very familiar with these engines and put well over 1.5 million miles on them collectively. The 32 series seems to me, by reading, are driven more like the old Detroits in the White semis from the mid '80s. Is this a correct perception? Secondly, how did you find the 3208, in a bulldozer, other truck or just bare? If the engine needs to be set forward for the turbo, and the tranny must follow forward of course, would it be just as easy to bend a new stick for the stick shift to compensate for moving the tranny forward or am I overlooking some other critical component besides lengthening the rear driveshaft and shortening the front shaft? Oh yeah, you said there were issues with moving the engine forward, what are they? What solutions exist for these problems? Not having a 3208 here nor a mock-up to see the issues you do leaves me kind of blind. Thanks for the help.