New Member First Purchase MEP-002A

[t5noel]

This is fun! I purchased my generator (760.00 + premium and tax) at Robins AFB. It's nice to live only 20 minutes away. I bought it back in early November. Since picking it up I've read the TM's several times as well as most of this forum before starting it. The fuel filters and air filter were all new. The oil was still clean. It had 469 hrs on it. There were no batteries so I bought new ones for it, 51Rs from AdvanceAuto. Took the fuel tank off and took it to the car wash and sprayed the inside with engine cleaner then pressure washed it. The tank was in good shape and came out very clean.

The frequency, percent load, and voltage gauges had moisture in them. I took them out and dried them under a desk lamp. The frequency gauge had movement but the others didn't. I purchased a gen board from https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=11-3282&catname=electric. The voltage gauge works great but the Pct-Load gauge didn't. Does anyone know if that Pct-Load gauge is even compatible with the 002? I bought a kill-a-watt from Newegg.com. Really good price (16.95).

It started on the second try. No smoke at all and purrs like a kitten. I did drive in the grounding rod and hooked it up, and I did not idle it. The aux outlets did not work. The circuit breaker was shot. Ordered a new one, not cheap (36.00) I did not want to buy a cheap plastic one with all the vibration. With the outlets working I hooked up the kill-a-watt and ran it for about an hour. The frequency and voltage held steady. The output on the the lugs was a steady 120V (H1/H0, H3/H0). I have it set to 120/240 1PH. I plugged in a hair dryer in the aux outlet. The Pct-load pegged when I put it on high. The gauge doesn't work so I'll have to figure that out. I'm hooked. Bought an M1102 trailer, waiting for the EUC. Glad they did away with them on generators.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Congratulations, and welcome to the madness! As you probably already know, there are some very knowledgeable folks onboard here. Glad to hear you've downloaded the TM's, they and the experts will save your butt should a problem develop.

 

[storeman]

Welcome to the troop. Prepare for more "fun". You got lucky.
Jerryopcorn:

 

[t5noel]

Pictures from GL

 

[RayK]

Welcome - I'm right up 341 outside of Fort Valley. I've got some 002's and 003's - stop by sometime.

 

[t5noel]

Welcome - I'm right up 341 outside of Fort Valley. I've got some 002's and 003's - stop by sometime.

That would be great! Thanks!

 

[swbradley1]

Welcome aboard and congrats on the MEP.

 

[t5noel]

This is fun! I purchased my generator (760.00 + premium and tax) at Robins AFB. It's nice to live only 20 minutes away. I bought it back in early November. Since picking it up I've read the TM's several times as well as most of this forum before starting it. The fuel filters and air filter were all new. The oil was still clean. It had 469 hrs on it. There were no batteries so I bought new ones for it, 51Rs from AdvanceAuto. Took the fuel tank off and took it to the car wash and sprayed the inside with engine cleaner then pressure washed it. The tank was in good shape and came out very clean.

The frequency, percent load, and voltage gauges had moisture in them. I took them out and dried them under a desk lamp. The frequency gauge had movement but the others didn't. I purchased a gen board from https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=11-3282&catname=electric. The voltage gauge works great but the Pct-Load gauge didn't. Does anyone know if that Pct-Load gauge is even compatible with the 002? I bought a kill-a-watt from Newegg.com. Really good price (16.95).

It started on the second try. No smoke at all and purrs like a kitten. I did drive in the grounding rod and hooked it up, and I did not idle it. The aux outlets did not work. The circuit breaker was shot. Ordered a new one, not cheap (36.00) I did not want to buy a cheap plastic one with all the vibration. With the outlets working I hooked up the kill-a-watt and ran it for about an hour. The frequency and voltage held steady. The output on the the lugs was a steady 120V (H1/H0, H3/H0). I have it set to 120/240 1PH. I plugged in a hair dryer in the aux outlet. The Pct-load pegged when I put it on high. The gauge doesn't work so I'll have to figure that out. I'm hooked. Bought an M1102 trailer, waiting for the EUC. Glad they did away with them on generators.

I found a thread (http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?77562-Load-on-convenience-outlets/page2) I had not seen before which I think explains why the Ammeter pegged when I plugged in the hair dryer. The aux outlet has a reduced capacity. Well I'll have to do some more load testing from the lugs. I'll wire an outlet to L3/L0? or L3/GRND?

 

[Triple Jim]

I've plugged a 1500 Watt heater into my 003A's convenience outlet and the %rated current meter read normally, moving the meter only a small amount. The previous posts about verifying that the convenience outlet is wired properly before trusting it are good advice though.

 

[leedawg]

agreed the load meter should not move much at all from just the hair dryer that is total percent load as read by the thermal watt converter. Sounds like the the percent load meter you replaced has a lower total DC voltage required to swing the needle to full scale. What I would probably do is start playing with different resistors or a variable resistor hooked in series with the meter and put a known load on the generator then dial in the meter to read the appropriate percentage that the generator is loaded to. The relationship should ideally be linear so you could then say load it up to 5kw and the meter should read 50% load. (or 100 % if its a mep 002 cannot remember which one we were talking about) does not matter principles are still the same. I actually found a direct replacement for my 005a on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-M-Percent...868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec3a3223c

Works perfectly direct replacement for the one that was in the unit that had a broken lead inside the meter. As I recall the model number was slightly different then the percent power meter in my mep 003 but I do not remember off the top of my head. You would have to compare them but its not a very popular item I think for the seller I offered him 50 bucks and he took it so I think he is greatful to move them looks like some stuff he is trying to sell that he got in a lot of military surplus stuff. There cant be that many ppl looking for that exact part I was actually shocked to have found it myself.

 

[t5noel]

So, if I plug the kill-a-watt in the aux outlet should the load I put through it match the load on the ammeter? I checked out the CT and it passed the ohms test. Also, if I check the load by measuring across the %Load meter connectors with an ammeter that should match some value I saw somewhere on a chart that shows the CT output against the % that should be reflected on the gauge. if that makes any sense.

 

[Triple Jim]

So, if I plug the kill-a-watt in the aux outlet should the load I put through it match the load on the ammeter?

Yes.

Also, if I check the load by measuring across the %Load meter connectors with an ammeter that should match some value I saw somewhere on a chart that shows the CT output against the % that should be reflected on the gauge.

No. The procedure is to put an ammeter in series with the %load meter. From TM5-6115-585-34, section 6-4:

(3) Percent Current Meter (M4) (17, figure 6-3). Connect an ac test ammeter in series with the % rated current meter. Operate Generator Set with a single phase load. Continue adding load to set until meter reads 0.75 amps. Meter (M4) should read 100% ±2%. Replace meter if necessary.

The right way to make your meter read 100% at 0.75 Amps is to buy or make a meter shunt that connects across the %load meter terminals so that when 0.75 Amps is flowing in the circuit, the meter will get whatever current it needs for a full scale reading, and the shunt will carry the rest. The shunt will have to be able to carry a good portion of 0.75 Amps. To get started, it would be very useful to find out what current or voltage your meter is designed to see for a reading of 100% load.

Depending on how much of a project you want to make of this, it might be better to take leedawg's suggestion and see if you can get a direct replacement for $50. That assumes the meter he got reads 100% load at 0.75 Amps .

 

[edgephoto]

You should not use the convenience outlets to load test your machine. Make a cable and outlets to connect to the lugs. Then load test from there. The meter on the machine is not displaying amps. It is displaying percent load. Your kill-a-watt will display amps not percent load.

To measure current you do not connect a meter across the terminals in parallel. That will surely blow the fuse in your meter or let the smoke out if you have a cheap non-protected meter. To measure current you have to connect the meter in series. In other words all the power has to flow through the meter. You need to make sure the current flowing in the circuit is not greater than the meter's rating. Otherwise you blow the fuse or let the smoke out. This is why clamp on ammeters are popular. You do not have to disturb/disconnect the circuit and you have a much higher range of current measurements.

If I am understanding your situation correctly your load meter reads 100% with a very small load on it. Sounds like you may have a problem. Possibly a problem with the shunt for your meter or perhaps the incorrect meter. Maybe you could get the info off the meter and post it so we can compare to other units. Here is the test from the TM for the load meter.

(3) Percent Current Meter (M4) (17, figure 6-3).Connect an ac test ammeter in series with the % ratedcurrent meter. Operate Generator Set with a single phaseload. Continue adding load to set until meter reads 0.75amps. Meter (M4) should read 100% ± 2% . Replace meterif necessary.

 

[leedawg]

I would agree it does sound as though you are slightly confused on what the %power meter is telling you. IT is not an amp meter as you have reffered to it. THe larger units like the 004 and up do indeed have an amp meter as well to see current on the unit but the % power meter is really an indication of watts of power on the machine which is derived from current x volts = watts. I am pretty sure the killawatt meter will also display this information on one of its screens. But the point being your multimeter will not tell you this information you would have to derive it from calculations. I am not sure how the 002 and 003 work but the bigger units like the 004 and up have a box that is called a thermal watt converter that basically does all the figuring of this based on how much current is moving through the coils and at what voltage. The power going to the meter itself is DC voltage that is varied by the thermal watt converter to display the appropriate percentage power at least in the 004 and up. I would think this is what happens in the the 003 as well but I could be wrong.

Seems as though if it was simply an ampmeter with a percentage scale it would be wrong if say the unit was operating in 120 volt mode with say a 40 amp load on it should have you at about 4800 watts of power or pretty near 100 percent for an 002. But if say that same amperage was being pulled in 220 volt mode you would be closer to 8800 watts of power or 175% load for an 002. So I would think an ampmeter would lead to errors as far as percent power goes due to the fact that it cannot take into account the change in voltage. I suppose if the unit was locked into one mode or had a different shunt for each mode you could overcome this. The meters as far as I have observed fq and % power both need a transducer to drive them,Again in the 004 and up I am not totally sure for the 003 and down. I know the fq does in the 003 and down but not sure on the percent power meter.

 

[edgephoto]

I would agree it does sound as though you are slightly confused on what the %power meter is telling you. IT is not an amp meter as you have reffered to it. THe larger units like the 004 and up do indeed have an amp meter as well to see current on the unit but the % power meter is really an indication of watts of power on the machine which is derived from current x volts = watts. I am pretty sure the killawatt meter will also display this information on one of its screens. But the point being your multimeter will not tell you this information you would have to derive it from calculations. I am not sure how the 002 and 003 work but the bigger units like the 004 and up have a box that is called a thermal watt converter that basically does all the figuring of this based on how much current is moving through the coils and at what voltage. The power going to the meter itself is DC voltage that is varied by the thermal watt converter to display the appropriate percentage power at least in the 004 and up. I would think this is what happens in the the 003 as well but I could be wrong.

Seems as though if it was simply an ampmeter with a percentage scale it would be wrong if say the unit was operating in 120 volt mode with say a 40 amp load on it should have you at about 4800 watts of power or pretty near 100 percent for an 002. But if say that same amperage was being pulled in 220 volt mode you would be closer to 8800 watts of power or 175% load for an 002. So I would think an ampmeter would lead to errors as far as percent power goes due to the fact that it cannot take into account the change in voltage. I suppose if the unit was locked into one mode or had a different shunt for each mode you could overcome this. The meters as far as I have observed fq and % power both need a transducer to drive them,Again in the 004 and up I am not totally sure for the 003 and down. I know the fq does in the 003 and down but not sure on the percent power meter.

According to the TM is is an ammeter. The selector switch on the control panel controls what it is reading. You need to set the switch on the control panel to match the configuration you have chosen with the selector switch on the connection box. Make sure you have that switch set correctly. It appears that this is an ammeter with a % load scale. In order to troubleshoot it you will need the -12 TM and follow the wiring diagram and range selector switch continuity checks to diagnose.

 

[t5noel]

I would agree it does sound as though you are slightly confused on what the %power meter is telling you. IT is not an amp meter as you have reffered to it. THe larger units like the 004 and up do indeed have an amp meter as well to see current on the unit but the % power meter is really an indication of watts of power on the machine which is derived from current x volts = watts. I am pretty sure the killawatt meter will also display this information on one of its screens. But the point being your multimeter will not tell you this information you would have to derive it from calculations. I am not sure how the 002 and 003 work but the bigger units like the 004 and up have a box that is called a thermal watt converter that basically does all the figuring of this based on how much current is moving through the coils and at what voltage. The power going to the meter itself is DC voltage that is varied by the thermal watt converter to display the appropriate percentage power at least in the 004 and up. I would think this is what happens in the the 003 as well but I could be wrong.

Seems as though if it was simply an ampmeter with a percentage scale it would be wrong if say the unit was operating in 120 volt mode with say a 40 amp load on it should have you at about 4800 watts of power or pretty near 100 percent for an 002. But if say that same amperage was being pulled in 220 volt mode you would be closer to 8800 watts of power or 175% load for an 002. So I would think an ampmeter would lead to errors as far as percent power goes due to the fact that it cannot take into account the change in voltage. I suppose if the unit was locked into one mode or had a different shunt for each mode you could overcome this. The meters as far as I have observed fq and % power both need a transducer to drive them,Again in the 004 and up I am not totally sure for the 003 and down. I know the fq does in the 003 and down but not sure on the percent power meter.

I understand what you say about %power vs ammeter and I understand the difference. The TMs confuse things by the using the terms interchangeably. In the parts list where they show the NSN and part no. they call it an ammeter.

The 002A uses a current transformer (CT) to drive the %power meter. It is quite large so I imagine it serves to show the load for all three settings, 120 1PH, 120/240 1 PH, and the 120/208 3 PH modes. I tested it as best I could according to the TM checking the Ohms. The CT connections are not marked and I have yet to find a diagram showing which are which. Anybody seen any such thing?

Correction, after closer study the %power meter only supports single phase power.

 

[leedawg]

Hum well im utterly confused Id have to go read the tech manual for the 002 and 003. But sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the point I was making. Guess you just have to figure out if it is a real amp meter that reads a % power scale or if it is driven by a DC voltage. However sounds like it is probably the latter since you mentioned the current transformers. However based on what was said about the TM perhaps disregard my posts I am not adding anything useful I fear. I will just watch from here on out

opcorn:

 

[t5noel]

I was out of town half of December and finally got the cable in to connect to the house. I hooked into the house through a 30A 240 circuit. The test went well. In fact better than I could hope. Started by turning on all the 110v circuits one at a time. She just ate it up. I monitored the voltage and current in the house with a kill-a-watt. They both held solid even when the frig and large freezer ran at the same time. I let it run for an hour while I watched a movie.

Then I went for broke and turned on the heat pump to see what would happen. The generator revved for a second and smoothed out and the a/c was poring out the cold air. The lights did dim slightly for a second. The volts dropped to about 118.5v to 119v. The current held steady at 60.1hz. I left everything running for another two hours with the a/c cycling on and off. I periodically checked the cable outside as well as the circuit breaker for heat. No hint of any at all. I'm happy with round one. I'll need to do again in a couple weeks when I have some free time. Thanks again for all the great advice on the forum!

 

[LuckyDog]

...
Then I went for broke and turned on the heat pump to see what would happen. The generator revved for a second and smoothed out and the a/c was poring out the cold air. ...!

A/C in January? Only dem **** rebs would do that.

Sent from my IcePOD

 

[t5noel]

Actually I'm one of those "**** Yankees" from NH displaced here by the Air Force. I retired in 1995, found a job, hence "****ed", and stayed. The weather was really nice that day, too warm for heat so I kicked on the a/c. We don't usually kick on the a/c till the end of March.