"New" MEP-002A Purchase

[Another Ahab]

Play with the adjuster, moving it left or right to see which way the spring will move up. I'm pretty sure turning the adjuster clockwise will move the spring up but I could be wrong. Every mistake is a learning experience.

Thomas Edison was full of that kind of thinking. He managed to get a thing or two done in his time.

And then there's Michael Jordan, too:

“I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can’t accept not trying.” ~Michael Jordan

 

[Forester]

Play with the adjuster, moving it left or right to see which way the spring will move up. I'm pretty sure turning the adjuster clockwise will move the spring up but I could be wrong. Every mistake is a learning experience.

Moving the adjuster clockwise did indeed move the spring up. I didn't comprehend how the adjustment(er) worked until I got a better look at it and actually started to move it. So you were right jamawieb pushing on the left side and turning the adjuster clockwise moves the spring up. I had it stuck in my head that I was going to be compressing something.

So what did that do for me? Well I started it up and initially I was high/pegging out on the HZ meter. I had to reduce the fuel knob a bit (more than I recall when I first ran the unit - reducing from where the fuel was set and left previously) so now the knob sits about an inch from the frame. I'd say about a quarter or less of the way out. I adjusted the spring prior and during the run and it still does do some hunting, so some more fine tuning is in order. I was in my garage and my exhaust fan is blocked for the winter so I'll have to wheel it outside to let it get good and warmed up. I will review the TM again and prepare something to put a load on the unit.

I have some 240V baseboard heaters, but I think it will be easier to buy a water heater element and go that route. Is it OK to let that draw on the unit all at once? I.E wire the element up and throw the breaker? Ideally I know this is not the best scenario. If you all say setting up several of my baseboards and throwing one at a time to ramp up the load is a better idea then that's what I'll do. Someone might have to come over and help me find where I squirreled away the thermostats though....

 

[DieselAddict]

It is OK to dump a full load on it at once. That is actually one of the tests you should do to ensure it is fully functional. Obviously after its warmed up sufficiently.

When I do my monthly runs I've been connecting the MEP to the house and running the water heater, oven, and dryer at the same time. The oven and dryer cycle on and off as they heat up so the load on the generator will shift around from about 40% to about 125%. It makes for a good test for the governor.

When I'm working on a generator I use water heater elements. They work great for keeping a steady load on the machine to work the bugs out.

 

[Another Ahab]

I have some 240V baseboard heaters, but I think it will be easier to buy a water heater element and go that route. Is it OK to let that draw on the unit all at once? I.E wire the element up and throw the breaker? Ideally I know this is not the best scenario. If you all say setting up several of my baseboards and throwing one at a time to ramp up the load is a better idea then that's what I'll do. Someone might have to come over and help me find where I squirreled away the thermostats though....

Count on it:

- You put them where you can't find them...

Until you don't need them; then they'll show up.

 

[jamawieb]

Moving the adjuster clockwise did indeed move the spring up. I didn't comprehend how the adjustment(er) worked until I got a better look at it and actually started to move it. So you were right jamawieb pushing on the left side and turning the adjuster clockwise moves the spring up. I had it stuck in my head that I was going to be compressing something.

So what did that do for me? Well I started it up and initially I was high/pegging out on the HZ meter. I had to reduce the fuel knob a bit (more than I recall when I first ran the unit - reducing from where the fuel was set and left previously) so now the knob sits about an inch from the frame. I'd say about a quarter or less of the way out. I adjusted the spring prior and during the run and it still does do some hunting, so some more fine tuning is in order. I was in my garage and my exhaust fan is blocked for the winter so I'll have to wheel it outside to let it get good and warmed up. I will review the TM again and prepare something to put a load on the unit.

I have some 240V baseboard heaters, but I think it will be easier to buy a water heater element and go that route. Is it OK to let that draw on the unit all at once? I.E wire the element up and throw the breaker? Ideally I know this is not the best scenario. If you all say setting up several of my baseboards and throwing one at a time to ramp up the load is a better idea then that's what I'll do. Someone might have to come over and help me find where I squirreled away the thermostats though....

Great, I'm glad it worked for you. I have a feeling that your fine tuning is going to come from the adjustments of the ip linkage (the pieces that fell off initially). I would personally work on the linkage adjustments until the hertz stop hunting. Then you can move back the spring adjuster when you apply load. When you apply a large load and you lose more than 5 hertz, move the spring down a little.
I would use your base heaters since you already have them and it's fine to apply a large load on the unit all at once. Good Luck!

 

[Forester]

Count on it:

- You put them where you can't find them...

Until you don't need them; then they'll show up.

Well apparent we live in parallel worlds...

I did end up finding them. By recalling that the wife wanted (around 2007) one of the heaters installed in her sewing room in the basement. I moved the whole bag of hardware created from the removal to the basement. Began the setup process mounted the heater, only for her to decide that there weren't enough windows in the basement for a sewing room. The bag of hardware was then left on a shelf of disgust in said abandoned sewing room.

 

[Forester]

Great, I'm glad it worked for you. I have a feeling that your fine tuning is going to come from the adjustments of the ip linkage (the pieces that fell off initially). I would personally work on the linkage adjustments until the hertz stop hunting. Then you can move back the spring adjuster when you apply load. When you apply a large load and you lose more than 5 hertz, move the spring down a little.
I would use your base heaters since you already have them and it's fine to apply a large load on the unit all at once. Good Luck!

Will do. Thanks much.

 

[Keith_J]

Yes, governor adjustments can be fiddly. Took me a while to get it just right.

i did an abusive load test the other day, hooked it up in 3 phase to run the compressor in my SECM, a 2 hp motor load that puts about a 30% load over all three phases. Then I plugged in a 15 amp 120 volt compressor on the convvinence outlet which put L1 over 100%, then over L2-L3 I connected a 4.5 kW water heater element. The generator grunted but held a frequency of 60 Hz. Well over 100% on two phases. I ran out of loads.

 

[Another Ahab]

Yes, governor adjustments can be fiddly. Took me a while to get it just right.

i did an abusive load test the other day, hooked it up in 3 phase to run the compressor in my SECM, a 2 hp motor load that puts about a 30% load over all three phases. Then I plugged in a 15 amp 120 volt compressor on the convvinence outlet which put L1 over 100%, then over L2-L3 I connected a 4.5 kW water heater element. The generator grunted but held a frequency of 60 Hz. Well over 100% on two phases. I ran out of loads.

Ignorant mostly of things generator-related, but curious and grateful to learn from your posts.

What happens when the generator is given more "task"/ load than it can handle:

- Is there a system breaker that disengages the load?

- Or can the generator actually be "strained"?

Or is there some other outcome other than one of these?

 

[Ray70]

Take a look at Sewerzewk's sticky regarding the Main Breaker on these units, its interesting reading. There is a main breaker which will disengage the load on the terminal lugs but the inner workings of this type of breaker will allow varying amounts of load for varying amounts of time depending on the amount of load, type of load ( resistive or inductive ) and if it is a short surge or an extended load. The makeup of the breaker will allow it to endure a higher sustained resistive load from say heating elements than it will from a high surge from an inductive load like a large electric motor starting up.
There is also a separate breaker that protects the front courtesy outlet from overload and a circuit breaker on the DC side of things as well.
Most people say that a heavy restive load will often bog the motor down a bit once you get well over 100% rated load. It will stay there for a period of time but as the thermal portion of the breaker heats up it will eventually trip.
If you put too heavy of a inductive load on it, the magnetic flux portion of the breaker will usually trip instantly without the motor even twitching at all.
The amount of power available is also somewhat determined by the configuration your AC select switch is set at as you can get more amperage in the 3 phase and 120V single phase modes than you can in the 120/240 single phase because you are unable to take advantage of all 3 sets of windings, where as in 120 single and 3 phase modes you are using the full potential of the machine's generator.

 

[Forester]

Yes, governor adjustments can be fiddly. Took me a while to get it just right.

i did an abusive load test the other day, hooked it up in 3 phase to run the compressor in my SECM, a 2 hp motor load that puts about a 30% load over all three phases. Then I plugged in a 15 amp 120 volt compressor on the convvinence outlet which put L1 over 100%, then over L2-L3 I connected a 4.5 kW water heater element. The generator grunted but held a frequency of 60 Hz. Well over 100% on two phases. I ran out of loads.

I am somewhat anxious to try a load test, but it's been so stinking cold I am hesitant to do the test outside - long if not impossible warm up + operator fingers freezing. Garage came with an auto exhaust vent/blower, but i plugged it to keep from loosing heat. I might have to rework my plugging so that I can use it. Not even sure it will work adequately... It is basically an old furnace blower with a small electric motor and a box built around it then a duct to the outside. There is a 1 1/2" (maybe 2") pipe stub in one corner of the box that I assume the guy used to hook a flex pipe up to the exhaust of whatever he was working on. Never seen a system with a pipe this small though. If i try it i will put a CO detector in the garage.

 

[Another Ahab]

Take a look at Sewerzewk's sticky regarding the Main Breaker on these units, its interesting reading. There is a main breaker which will disengage the load on the terminal lugs but the inner workings of this type of breaker will allow varying amounts of load for varying amounts of time depending on the amount of load, type of load ( resistive or inductive ) and if it is a short surge or an extended load. The makeup of the breaker will allow it to endure a higher sustained resistive load from say heating elements than it will from a high surge from an inductive load like a large electric motor starting up.

Thanks, Ray70; good stuff there in the Sticky:

- I got about 2 pages into it, and then my head started to ache.

- I'll have to tackle it in increments; a bite-at-a-time.

I'm a carpenter, and so never deal much with problems more complicated than "too long" or "too short" (well, you know +/-). Electricity just plain isn't that simple.

And whenever I tried to figure the stuff out, and asked an electrician to explain it to me, always seemed that they knew exactly what they were talking about, but just didn't have a way of explaining it in any way to break through clearly to my dull skull.

But the more I get explanations from different people and sources (time and again), the more it begins to soak in. So, thanks a million!

Electricity: very cool, but it seems kind of a like magic alchemy, at least to me.

 

[Keith_J]

Ignorant mostly of things generated-related, but curious and grateful to learn from your posts.

What happens when the generator is given more "task"/ load than it can handle:

- Is there a system breaker that disengages the load?

- Or can the generator actually be "strained"?

Or is there some other outcome other than one of these?

Yes, the main breaker can trip with an overload although if properly adjusted, it takes a huge load as the safety here is against dead shorts.

The desired outcome of a severe load test is to see the governor work and the injection pump to stabilize at a higher flow rate.

when running the 002A to power the SECM's 2 Hp compressor, the cooling shutter never opens. When running the water heater element on 240 single phase, the shutter opens about 1/2" after 10 minutes. Running the extreme load, the shutter fully opens.

 

[Keith_J]

I am somewhat anxious to try a load test, but it's been so stinking cold I am hesitant to do the test outside - long if not impossible warm up + operator fingers freezing. Garage came with an auto exhaust vent/blower, but i plugged it to keep from loosing heat. I might have to rework my plugging so that I can use it. Not even sure it will work adequately... It is basically an old furnace blower with a small electric motor and a box built around it then a duct to the outside. There is a 1 1/2" (maybe 2") pipe stub in one corner of the box that I assume the guy used to hook a flex pipe up to the exhaust of whatever he was working on. Never seen a system with a pipe this small though. If i try it i will put a CO detector in the garage.

When I operated and fixed these machines as a Joe in Uncle Sugar's Army, we had a flexible metal hose much like the neck of a jerry can spout. This was used to pipe exhaust out of the generator bunker, into an external chimney also built of sandbags. Yes, it was loud in the bunker but with hearing protection, it was quite warm on cold days.

The only benefit of the gasoline generators over diesel was the ability to cook on the mufflers. Really, hot coffee in 15 minutes. Warm MREs. Never ate cold food unless we were tactical quiet.

 

[Another Ahab]

The only benefit of the gasoline generators over diesel was the ability to cook on the mufflers. Really, hot coffee in 15 minutes. Warm MREs. Never ate cold food unless we were tactical quiet.

How's that Keith_J;

- gasoline-fired has a horizontal pipe, and diesel-fired vertical; that it?
- or just no muffler at all on the diesel?

 

[Forester]

Well I finally got a chance to give the MEP some exercise today, and like usual I think I did more harm than good.

I started and warmed it up. The two baseboard heaters I wanted to use as my load bank didn't suck enough juice to get me past 70% (if there ever was a sticker indicating wattage its long gone). So I hunted around for something to draw more power. Unfortunately I chose to plug things into the convenience outlet(s) and my HZ meter spiked, and wouldn't un-spike even after shutting down and restarting... At this point i did a search here thinking that surely this cant have been a unheard of issue. Well one of the first posts I came upon was one from Keith_J, from 2011 I think, where he said not to pull more than 500 watts if that from the convenience receptacles - I did that probably by 3X . One space heater one heat gun. So...what harm do you suppose I have done?

I let the generator sit for a couple hours and just started it up moments ago. HZ gauge stayed at 0 (as apposed to pegged when I last ran it) for an anxious ten plus seconds and then jumped to normal. Issue avoided and lesson learned?

I also see that Keith_J mentioned in this current string of posts above that he plugged an air compressor into his convenience outlet -?? high amps low watts?

Are my issues unrelated? To soon to tell??

I have an old sub panel that I think I will work into my load bank instead of direct wiring the baseboards. I will replace one of the six foot baseboards with a ten foot; then mount an outlet box to either side of the sub panel. Then if the 10' and 6' baseboards don't do the trick I can plug things into both outlets and keep the loads balanced.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Convenience outlet is for lights or small crap.

You might have fried it, I'll wait for someone more "in the know" to verify it.

 

[Isaac-1]

My guess is they are unrelated and your frequency transducer for the meter is just going out

 

[Triple Jim]

My guess is they are unrelated and your frequency transducer for the meter is just going out

Agreed. The frequency meter doesn't know or care whether you're using power from the convenience outlet or not.

 

[jamawieb]

You didn't do any harm, the convenience outlet have there own 15 amp breaker. The breaker will throw before any damage is done. I believe Isaac-1 is correct, it's more than likely just the transducer going out(this is very common). You have 2 options, we have a member here that makes a new digital meter, that replaces the transducer and gauge or buy a used transducer (if you need one let me know, I have some good ones available). You can also go to harbor freight and buy a kilowatt meter that can plug into the convenience outlet to read the hertz and voltage, you can also plug this into the house so you can watch everything inside the house.
So how did the governor work with the 70% load?