New To Me Engine, Won't Start

[helobravo]

what method are you using to do a compresion test. you need to pull the ip wire, pull all glow plugs so you can get good speed on the starter and then test one cylinder at a time. make sure the injectors are torqued to the right spec and have the washers in place. the engine should only need about 5 or 6 revolutions for each cylinder test. each cylinder should give you about 425 to 435 psi.

I think the guy screwed me on the engine. Plugs out, compression under 250 on first 3 cylinders I tested.
I decided to drown my sorrows over lunch and took a break.
I don't understand why I do not have signs of blow by.

 

[Matt5]

Fair enough never ever did a compression test on a warm up engine lol always cold cause generally the problem was can not start but... 220 is very low however you could have washed the cylinders... put some oil down each glow plug hole and then turn it over plugs out.

It also sounds in the vid to be turning very slow to me... slow turn = lower compression, check your batteries, check your starter, check your connections.

Sorry for the crappy vid but I am alone lol... IP wire removed else it would have started in like... 1 revolution. Your vid again sounds slow and like it is trying to hit off but... with out making enough RPM you won't get the motor to fire. Maybe you have have bad batteries or a bad starter.

https://youtu.be/L_Ukyc8cde4

 

[helobravo]

I did get more RPM out of it with starting box hooked up and plugs out. I would say close to your video speed.
I just went out and took readings off 6 cylinders.
They are off enough that I didn't bother with 7 and 8 since my testing adapter is so long, it would be a pain in the ass for nothing.
Pressures are: 1-240 3-240 5-220 2-200 4-190 6-210
If I bought a bad motor, I can live with that. I want to move on,
It is hard to say "the heck with it" and give up, but it looks like that's what I need to do.
Anyone have any last thoughts?
Can I hone and re-ring this motor or is that a waste of time? I know my way around a gasoline SBC but never freshened up a diesel.
Thanks all.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Sorry to hear you got ripped off.

Any recourse with the seller? (Other than posting his name here, of course.)

 

[helobravo]

Sorry to hear you got ripped off.

Any recourse with the seller? (Other than posting his name here, of course.)

I cannot find a trace of our communication.
I spoke to this gut about 10 times at least and texted locations and what not.
He's out of state, I drove 2 hours to meet him half way.
It's not like I can do anything to him, I'd just like to know if he intentionally screwed me or not.
The IP and injectors were rebuilt with the re builders card in the box. I don't think the guy ever actually ran the motor.
At least I have two working IP and injectors to sell if I can't hone the motor.
I'm sick of looking at it. I don't know what I'm going to do.

 

[98G]

I know ether is a bad idea in these engines, but....

Starting with a cold engine and glowplugs disconnected, crank it and give it a brief squirt. Just to see....

Edit- oops, I went back and now see you already did this.

Edit again - I would think ether would ignite at the 200 compression measured. Anything coming out the exhaust? Perhaps the valves aren't opening....

 

[Tinstar]

There’s a guy on YouTube from Alabama who could not get his M1008 to start.
Tried everything.
Finally he poured some transmission fluid down each intake opening. No clue on amounts.
Then using a shop rag soaked in gasoline, laid the rag flat over the intake.
Cranked a few times and it finally started.
Smoked like crazy for a bit.

Most of this unusual method was not shown in the video, but explained later.

Worth a try?

Just a thought.

 

[richingalveston]

before you pull the engine, you need to pull the heads and check the head gaskets. if you put either in it, you could very easily have blown the head gaskets out.

 

[cucvrus]

Before pulling the heads to check the head gaskets get a good reliable mechanic to pressure test the cooling system. If the head gaskets are blown and leaking it will NOT hold pressure. We had a 6.2 diesel for over 20 years that was a 1984 K30 cab chassis plow truck previously with the state of Pennsylvania. We started it everyday with a squirt of starting fluid. Never blew the head gaskets. The wiring was all messed up and a manual glow plug switch was all cobbled. I started it first thing every morning it was needed with magic spray. The frame rotted in half and the engine was transplanted in another plow truck. Hard to tell from afar what is going on but a lot of good tips were given here to help you out. And before you jump to conclusions that the head gaskets are blown because it don't hold pressure make sure the cooling system is 100% tight. Radiator, heater core, hoses, manifold gaskets. Everything on the cooling system. If the head gaskets are blown it will NOT hold pressure. With the glow plugs removed it may be possible to hear the leaking cylinder. Good Luck.

 

[HETvet]

Don’t waste your time on having a mechanic pressure test the cooling system. If the head gaskets are blown to the cooling passages, you would get coolant in the exhaust. Possible to have head gasket blown bore to bore. Pull the heads. If it’s a head gasket your going to have to do so any ways. Inspect the pistons and boresideof the heads. Turn the engine over by hand with heads off. Make sure all the pistons come to TDC and BDC.

Yes you can hone the bores and re-ring. A piston engine is a piston engine. The only thing different between a gas and Diesel engine is the “combustion chamber” and the ignition source, besides for the parts that make a Diesel engine typically are beefier than a gasser. If your going that far to hone and ring it, personally I would align hone the cam bore, crank bore and mains, install new bearings; freshin er up. Maybe even throw some performance goodies at it.

 

[cucvrus]

Quick question. How can it be a waste of time to pressure test the cooling system? This head gasket was on a 6.2 CUCV M1009 engine that I pressure tested and had a definite coolant leak into the combustion chambers. It ran like a steam Jenny out the right tailpipe. The heads were fine and just needed the complete gone over. This engine ran perfect and had no issues. I wanted to pressure test it because I had it out of the truck. I plugged the holes and applied pressure. It would not hold. I double checked everything. It would make slight bubbles at the block to head mating surface. Very slight. I pulled the heads. This is what I found. This was a perfect running truck in every way. It would have been a short time before the entire gasket was corroded to nothing. These are 35 year old engines and they do need an occasional freshening of the top end. The bottom end is very durable. And also the one with the NOT blown head gaskets. Had cracked heats. Mystery to me. But I pulled 3 sets of heads to find a good pair. I wish you luck. If I were closer I would revel in the challenge to get it started. I bought many not running and got all but 1 started. The one I couldn't get started was rusted fast. No hood. Pressure test it before you go wildly tearing into it. At least have a diesel mechanic look at it.

 

[HETvet]

You just made my point; head gasket failure; your pulling the heads. Cracked head; your pulling the heads. Cracked piston; your pulling the heads. If you want to fix this engine; your going to end up pulling the heads so just pull them. As a diesel tech., I would of just pulled the heads. Because I know with all the information given and diagnostic results so far, in order to repair what ever is going on, I’m going to have to pull the heads anyway. What’s the theme here; pull the heads

 

[Matt5]

Anything is possible but really... a head gasket that is blown on *every* cylinder? I don't know that seems VERY unlikely... the other thing to account for is why is the compression so low... this may not be a rebuildable core, every cylinder around 200psi? Again unless it was washed... can't say I know really what numbers we would see on a washed cylinder... I can't say it anymore... I would be putting oil down into the cylinders incase they were washed and trying to refire it... charge the batteries, use the jump pack get the RPM up... see what happens... if she fires off let her run and redo the compression test.

Diesel rebuild same as gas, just watch the mainwebs for cracks... tends to happen on the 6.2's.

It sucks but always try to hear a motor run before you buy... if the motor is good and the seller is not a idiot... they will take a vid of it running before pulling it...

Could have a new IP and injectors because the PO could not get it to run... and then found out it was bad afterwards... some people suck they will sell stuff they know is no good but tell you it runs great.

You will get many opinions, mine would be a little oil down each glow plug hole, turn it over quick, install plugs, try to fire her off (assuming plugs are tested working) if that does not work, give her a little shot of ether... these "omg you used ether your motor is dead" people are nuts... yeah it is not recommend but, every last 6.2 I have has had ether with no damage... now... one time I let her idle 4 hours... that did nothing to help the motor... but it's not a 10 second spray it's a very quick little shot... or whatever use a gas soaked rag... use some starting aid...

assuming you have good cranking RPM and still have no fire... pull the motor... tear her down or just replace...

*maybe* the timing is off... chain is stretched... or the PO messed around in there...

 

[HETvet]

Again, if it was me at this point, I would pull the heads, the timing cover IP. Because at this point your going to be doing this work anyways in order to repair it. Given you obviously have not been given accurate information and history of this engine, I would pull the engine and tear it completely down and rebuild it anyways just so I know everything is squared away. But again, this is what I personally would do.

 

[richingalveston]

I just read the post to see that you don't know who you got the motor from, I think I sold you the motor. IF you met me in lake Charles on 3-29-19. my PM's on the steel soldiers account got erased so I cannot confirm that it is you that I sold it to but I have text messages on my phone dated 3-29-19 for when I delivered the motor to lake Charles LA.. IF it is you that I sold the motor to.
I sold it for the price of the new parts on it.
you got the motor for free but I was confident the motor was good.
The injection pump which was fresh rebuild from badger diesel $550
The new injectors from badger diesel $240
a new harmonic balancer $100
new glow plugs $60
The used parts you got were a set of fuel injection lines, flex plate, water pump, air cleaner with new filter, passenger side exhaust manifold, oil pan,one valve cover, oil cooler lines and an engine stand.

The motor was a good running motor when removed from my truck, The post I posted of the compression test was the test of that motor. From when that test was done, I had put less than $1000 miles on it before removing it. After installing my 4l80e I was not happy that it did not have enough power for the 4l80e and bought my 6.5. The motor was sprayed down with oil and wrapped up and stored in my barn sitting next to my truck. I am very confident that the motor was good when I sold it to you. There is no reason the engine would loose compression while sitting wrapped up in a my barn, it never got wet and never had any rodent homes built in it. The oil pan was not on the motor and the bottom end looked as good as new when I sold it and I did turn it over by hand before loading it up.

I strongly advised that the first thing you should do is remove the heads and replace the head gaskets, that is something I did not do.
IF you put the motor in as is, check the injectors. I had taken the new injectors and screwed them in by hand, never torqued them and I am not sure if they had the copper gaskets. If you did not check them, then that is probably where you are loosing compression. For all cylinders to go from 420+compresion to 200, something is not right for sure but I don't think it is the rings.

I have never screwed anyone on anything. I spent $100 and a day of my time to meet you and deliver the motor. I sold you all of the above for $800. you overpaid me by $50, I mailed you check for the $50 that you over paid me. If the motor is bad, I will come get it and all of the parts and give you your money back. I will even come and help you work on it for a day to confirm it is bad and help pull the motor from the truck. I cannot come that way until the weekend of the 10th or the 17th. I may be able to come sooner during the week but it will depend on my work.

I sold the motor being confident it was a good motor. IF it is not, I will take it back and give you your money back. I cannot pay for your time just like I have not been paid for the time I have lost on my new motor due to bad parts. I paid over $8000 dollars for a new motor to find out they have no warranty either. Harland sharp does not warranty their parts and I had to pay for brand new heads to be rebuilt.
I will do what I can to help
Rich​

 

[Welder1]

That's a very generous offer to make things right if there is issues with the assembly.

 

[Terracoma]

EDIT: comments removed...

 

[Matt5]

Right in the OP "fuel is getting to the cylinders"
"won't start on diesel in the manifold (never do this) or ether"

So why is he getting no fire on ether and has compression numbers around 200?

 

[helobravo]

I just read the post to see that you don't know who you got the motor from, I think I sold you the motor. IF you met me in lake Charles on 3-29-19. my PM's on the steel soldiers account got erased so I cannot confirm that it is you that I sold it to but I have text messages on my phone dated 3-29-19 for when I delivered the motor to lake Charles LA.. IF it is you that I sold the motor to.
I sold it for the price of the new parts on it.
you got the motor for free but I was confident the motor was good.
The injection pump which was fresh rebuild from badger diesel $550
The new injectors from badger diesel $240
a new harmonic balancer $100
new glow plugs $60
The used parts you got were a set of fuel injection lines, flex plate, water pump, air cleaner with new filter, passenger side exhaust manifold, oil pan,one valve cover, oil cooler lines and an engine stand.

The motor was a good running motor when removed from my truck, The post I posted of the compression test was the test of that motor. From when that test was done, I had put less than $1000 miles on it before removing it. After installing my 4l80e I was not happy that it did not have enough power for the 4l80e and bought my 6.5. The motor was sprayed down with oil and wrapped up and stored in my barn sitting next to my truck. I am very confident that the motor was good when I sold it to you. There is no reason the engine would loose compression while sitting wrapped up in a my barn, it never got wet and never had any rodent homes built in it. The oil pan was not on the motor and the bottom end looked as good as new when I sold it and I did turn it over by hand before loading it up.

I strongly advised that the first thing you should do is remove the heads and replace the head gaskets, that is something I did not do.
IF you put the motor in as is, check the injectors. I had taken the new injectors and screwed them in by hand, never torqued them and I am not sure if they had the copper gaskets. If you did not check them, then that is probably where you are loosing compression. For all cylinders to go from 420+compresion to 200, something is not right for sure but I don't think it is the rings.

I have never screwed anyone on anything. I spent $100 and a day of my time to meet you and deliver the motor. I sold you all of the above for $800. you overpaid me by $50, I mailed you check for the $50 that you over paid me. If the motor is bad, I will come get it and all of the parts and give you your money back. I will even come and help you work on it for a day to confirm it is bad and help pull the motor from the truck. I cannot come that way until the weekend of the 10th or the 17th. I may be able to come sooner during the week but it will depend on my work.

I sold the motor being confident it was a good motor. IF it is not, I will take it back and give you your money back. I cannot pay for your time just like I have not been paid for the time I have lost on my new motor due to bad parts. I paid over $8000 dollars for a new motor to find out they have no warranty either. Harland sharp does not warranty their parts and I had to pay for brand new heads to be rebuilt.
I will do what I can to help
Rich​

Rich,I absolutely couldn't find your contact information on any platform we communicated on. I'm glad you posted.
I couldn't remember where we first communicated.
I felt good about our deal all the way through. I did want to get back in touch to ask you about it. I'm bald from pulling my hair out over this.
As you said, the bottom end looked new, everything else looked good, I believe I got a fair deal. I was very happy with the transaction.
I could not remember all the details about the motor since I couldn't find the texts or emails, which is crazy, because we discussed this quit a few times.
I will remove the injectors and check them tomorrow although I haven't noticed any fuel leakage there.
I actually spoke to a retired motor pool NCO today that is a friend of a friends and he graciously offered to come take a look.
I appreciate the offer to help, but I'm confident this guy will get a handle on it. I will not pull heads until he lays eyed on it.
Thanks again for the post. Thanks to all of you guys for continuing support.
Thanks Tim Trucks and Tony W for offering to help.
I will not be a hit and run poster! I will update the thread as needed.
What's the deal with your project? You got a bad motor? What's the story? Did you start a thread about it? I know it sounded like a serious project when we spoke....

 

[richingalveston]

I will do what I can to help. let me know what you find out.
I really think it is not getting any heat to glow plugs, they were new but pull them and test them with battery charger or other 12 volt source. make sure they are glowing on the end and not in the middle.
also check your glow plug solenoid. It can show that it passes voltage but wont pass any amps.

are you using the resistor or are they wired to 12 volts directly.
even at 200 compression if the glow plugs were good, it should fire on ether. But it is bad to use the stuff. It can blow out the pre-cups and definitely put holes in an already tired head gasket.

Do you have coolant in the truck yet. I normally would not put it in until I confirmed it fired first. can't let it run but a second without it but it is OK to check that the motor will run before putting in the coolant. Without the coolant, you cannot tell that the compression is getting into the water jacket. the pressure will push the coolant into the reservoir if coolant is there and head gaskets are leaking.

The compression test is also suspect because all of the cylinders are equal to each other. This never happens.

keep checking it out. my offer stands to come help, I just have to fit it into my schedule.