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Newb question, but 5-Ton WMO or WVO?

ActualReverend

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I see lots of articles here and other places about how the Deuces can run on waste veggie or motor oil with the multi fuel engine.. and even a few about the Cat engine in the M35A3... but I have not seen a single article on running WVO or WMO in a 5-Ton rig. Why is that? Is no one doing it?
 

Ford Mechanic

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The M35A2's were only equipped with Multifuel engines and had the capability to run on diesil, gas(in smaller quanities), kerosene, JP5(jetfuel), and WMO/WVO. There was some 5 tons equipped with Multi's and it has all the capabilities as the M35, but there was a couple of other engines like the Cummins that are more commonly found in the 5 tons. They probably had more power than the Multi, thus being the reason.

The waste veggie oil is common enough in modern diesil only vehicles that I would guess you could use it in a 5 ton with just the gelling and cleaning issues that are common. Waste engine oil is harder to combust and burns much hotter than diesil (contains more BTU's), that's why you rarely see others using it.

What makes the Multi able to burn all this is the compression ratio, it's 22:1 where as a conventional diesil is 16:1 to 18:1, and just for kicks a modern gas engine is 6:1 to 7:1 ratio for 87 octane and 8:1 to 9:1 for 93 octane.
 

ActualReverend

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My buddy with a '90 something powerstroke runs WMO in his rig, and I have another buddy with a Dodge Sprinter that runs WMO and WVO... you would think that someone would at least try it in a 5 ton, considering the cost of diesel these days.. but nuthin' . So apart from any jelling or any other "common" reasons not to run WVO or WMO, why does it seem like no one is running it?
If anything, it would seem that running WMO would be great for the pumps, as it lubricates more, so I am not sure about that reason. If it is "too costly" to try, that might be so. Right now it seems that the 5-ton trucks are for sale through some surplus sites, so is it worth it to try? I saw a 5ton selling from the surplus site that sold for 3k... but yet M35s are twice that. I only want one of these rigs to run WVO in it so can anyone think of a reason that the 5-ton is not a good rig to buy to run WVO in? There has to be a reason that no one seemed to post about it, right?
 

doghead

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Let me put it in layman's terms.

You can drink your own urine but, eventually it will kill you.
 

Ford Mechanic

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My buddy with a '90 something powerstroke runs WMO in his rig, and I have another buddy with a Dodge Sprinter that runs WMO and WVO... you would think that someone would at least try it in a 5 ton, considering the cost of diesel these days.. but nuthin' . So apart from any jelling or any other "common" reasons not to run WVO or WMO, why does it seem like no one is running it?
If anything, it would seem that running WMO would be great for the pumps, as it lubricates more, so I am not sure about that reason. If it is "too costly" to try, that might be so. Right now it seems that the 5-ton trucks are for sale through some surplus sites, so is it worth it to try? I saw a 5ton selling from the surplus site that sold for 3k... but yet M35s are twice that. I only want one of these rigs to run WVO in it so can anyone think of a reason that the 5-ton is not a good rig to buy to run WVO in? There has to be a reason that no one seemed to post about it, right?
WMO makes less power and burns hotter, a 30-40 year old engine designed for diesil won't take the stesses as well as your buddies Power Stroke. Modern engines handle the extra heat better due to things have improved in the manufacturing materials and other things. A Pyrometer or exaust temp guage is almost a must if your running WMO in the M35. Your flirtin with disaster if not......

At our dealership we have several customers running different amounts of WVO and from what they've told me it has a different filtering and cleaning procedure to remove all the water and particles in it. It's alot more difficult to set-up than my WMO station in my opinion. They tell me they notice only a slight difference in power, but you have to be wary of the WVO gelling in the fuel lines when it's cold out even with it diluted with diesil. The other thing that is bad about WVO is it'll clean EVERYTHING, it's 10x worse than trans fluid. Typically folks wean the trucks on it and keep plenty of fuel filters in the trucks. It's not uncommon to have to change them on the side of the road due to the high rate of clogging. How much are 5 ton filters and how easy are they to change? Something you mind doing on the side of the road? The fastest way to kill an I/P if to starve it for fuel. Just ask patracey, he's got this thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...on-of-testing-fuel-system-failure-of-Hyd-Head) Ran it out of fuel and killed the I/P by limping it less than a mile.


As far as WMO lubing the I/P better, that's a 2 sided sword. The WMO if too thick will actually damage the I/P. The pumps and plungers operate a a very high rate of speed and need a thin lubricant to mantain life. Your buddies Powerstroke fuel system doesn't operate in the same manner as these engines. It has a lift pump(some have 2 pumps but niether versions make more than 60 psi), high pressure engine oil pump, and then the injectors are electrically fired with Engine oil pressure. Vastly different type of injection system.


Not saying that it's cant be done or that you can't do it, but you need to be aware of the consiquences of running fuels the engine wasn't designed for. And very familier with operation and repair of your truck. You also need to do the homework on your state laws regarding running non-taxed fuel and how to do it legally(as this site doesn't condone tax evasion), there are several threads about this but each state is different. Read up on especailly the last several pages of this one http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?94182-ATF-red-dye

I run my M35 on WMO with diesil, I couldn't afford to work on it and enjoy it both if it wasn't for that. You might also want to check the classifieds here on this site, you might find one close that may be cheaper. Plus you'll get a better idea about what may be wrong with it up front where with GL you won't.


One more note, 5 tons have air brakes which means in some states you'll need a CDL with the airbrake endorsement. Good luck!!!!

Now I have a head ache........
 
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