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Newbie CB Radio Questions

EastCoastKaiser

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I'd like to put an antenna on my truck if for nothing more than show great, if I can use it for my CB even better. I know nothing about radios or antennas so bare with me. I have some bits and pieces kicking around. I have an AB-15 base and three sections of antenna MS-116A, 117A, and 118A. That all seems to go together fine. I have two mounts, I believe one is stamped MP-50 and the other is an unknown but neither seems to fit the base. I have the TM for the M715 radio installation but its not clear how the base actually mates to the mount. The base is basically a ceramic insulator, how does it get secured to the mount, a collar? I have no interest in being correct or duplicating what's in the TM, just wanna have something there. Second ? is can I use this as a CB antenna?
Thanks for the help.
 

emmado22

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RE: Newbie Questions

got a picture of what you have there?? You might want to consider a VRC 12 series antenna/base.. The AB-15 was designed for recieve only as far as I know...
 

CGarbee

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RE: Newbie Questions

You have the unscrew the AB15 in order to insert it into the MP50 mounting hole, then when you screw the AB15 back together, it clamps itself onto the MP50 mount. Just grab the ceramic portion of the AB15 in your hands and twist it apart...
I have a photo of one mounted on a M38, let me know if you need a photo showing the component parts off a vehicle (got a setup that is not mounted on a truck yet and can take photos off all the little pieces for you if needed...).
See:
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/december/aberdeen2004/Aberdeen2004_057.jpg

AB15 is used for Transmit and Recieve with the radio sets installed in the M38's such at this one:
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/december/aberdeen2004/Aberdeen2004_059.jpg

Good luck.
 

OPCOM

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RE: Newbie Questions

The antenna you are using is too long for a CB, and subtracting a section makes it too short. With 3 sections, it is good at 22MHz, and as we know CB is 27MHz. You will get a high SWR which will cause heating of the final RF power amplifier stage in the CB radio. All is not lost however.

I assume the AB-15 has a "regular" (SO-239) CB-type connector on it as most do. Some have a removable plug on them, that is a terminal you can attach a wire to. This unscrews. Maybe it is already missing from yours.

This simplifies matters. The AB-15 should have also a metal ring with it that goes between the ceramic halves and has a metal strap attached to a hose clamp. The general idea here is to screw your coaxial cable's plug onto the bottom of the AB-15, then clamp the hose clamp around that, and attach the short ground wire or the grounding ring to the vehicle's metal chassis or body. This is very important. So, the hot terminal of the cable will go to the actual whip, and the ground/shield of the cable will go by the shortest possible length of strap or braid to the vehicle metallic body. CB RF does not go through paint well, be sure to have a good ground connection.

The other end of the cable you can do a variety of things with. An SWR meter will help you judge each method. The SWR meter, to be anywhere near accurate for this, has to be right at the CB, no more than 1-2FT of cable between the radio and the meter. A cheap meter is fine. From worst to best:

Just connect it to the CB and limit your transmissions to 20% duty cycle and 30 seconds max. talk time per cycle (talk 30 seconds listen 150 seconds) to avoid overheating the CB. This is the least desirable but it will work.

Use a convenient length cable and clamp a 8-12 of those clamp-on RFI ferrite blocks on it. Most electronic stores have them for about $1 or so. This does the same thing basically as the two cable coil suggestions below. The blocks can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The extra energy trying to come back down the cable will be dissipated as a very small amount of heat in the ferrite blocks.

Use a cable that is 6-10FT longer than necessary. Take the extra length and coil it up into a 6-8" diameter circle and secure it to this shape with a few wire ties. This creates an RF choke on the outside of the RF cable and reduces the amount of RF flowing back into the CB, mostly converting it to heat in the cable. You will not detect this since you are only burning up 1-2 watts. The coil of wire can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The coil of cable should be kept 3" from metal.

Use a cable that is 6-10FT longer than necessary. Take the extra length and coil it up into a 3-4" diameter single layer solenoid (coil) on a piece of PVC pipe and secure it to this shape with a few wire ties. This creates an RF choke on the outside of the RF cable and reduces the amount of RF flowing back into the CB, mostly converting it to heat in the cable. You will not detect this since you are only burning up 1-2 watts. The coil of wire can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The coil of cable should be kept 3" from metal.

Use a cable of a convenient length and buy a "CB antenna tuner". The tuner goes preferrably at the antenna end of the setup, no more than 1-2 FT from the antenna. Using the SWR meter, tune it on CH 19 since that is the center of the band, for lowest SWR. The tuner usually has two knobs, and they affect each other. Go back and forth between them till the lowest SWR is obtained. The tuner must be protected from weather. This is the best solution.

Any of these solutions can be placed at the CB radio alternately, but the cable from there to the antenna will radiate unwanted RF energy and cause inefficiencies, not only with transmit, but with receive. Matching or supression should always be done at the antenna. SWR measurement should be done at the CB.

Hope this helps.
 

EastCoastKaiser

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Talk about a rookie!

CGarbee
Believe it or not, I had no idea the AB-15 split in two. :oops: Looking at it now I clearly see where it splits. Can't believe that tripped me up as long as it did. Well my mounting woes are solved, thanks.

OPCOM
Thanks for several good tips to get the CB hooked up. Before I try any of these routes, is there another military antenna I could use that is better suited to a CB? Of course I could just put an actual CB antenna on but the cool factor just isn't there.

Thanks a lot guys!
 

Attachments

CGarbee

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Raleigh, NC
RE: Talk about a rookie!

You are not the first person (nor likely the last) to be confused by that AB15 base...
I have run a CB with the MX6707 base with the matching two part whip that I more regularly use with my PRC77 when it is in a vehicular mount. The MX6707 base is tunable, so you can get a better match to the radio, but it's still not perfect... And you need a different mount, etc...
I'd run with what you have and apply one of OPCPOM's suggestions...
Good luck.
 

OPCOM

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There was a thread on modifying the MX6707 base for the CB. The base normally tunes down to 30MHz. There was a modification inside, and the base ws set to the lowest freq. range. not sure how reversible. One other post suggested trimming the antenna height and gutting the base, but that is a "wrong thing" to do.
http://69.61.69.210/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1497&highlight=cb+mx6707
and here is an article on doing it, but I don't agree with destroying the base like that. Better to use the AB-15 and whip, and if you upgrade to ham radio you can use an all-band automatic tuner.

Here'sa pic of what someone tried.
http://www.flashoffroad.com/radio/Milantenna/milAntenna.htm
also check this out for the schematic of the antenna, but the file is missing. maybe someone has it?
http://vadim.berkeley.edu/AS1729Sch.pdf
The post on "properly" modifying the MX-6707 was possibly in the MIL VEH list archives or a website.
 

seyit

New member
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Location
Tokat , Turkey
The antenna you are using is too long for a CB, and subtracting a section makes it too short. With 3 sections, it is good at 22MHz, and as we know CB is 27MHz. You will get a high SWR which will cause heating of the final RF power amplifier stage in the CB radio. All is not lost however.

I assume the AB-15 has a "regular" (SO-239) CB-type connector on it as most do. Some have a removable plug on them, that is a terminal you can attach a wire to. This unscrews. Maybe it is already missing from yours.

This simplifies matters. The AB-15 should have also a metal ring with it that goes between the ceramic halves and has a metal strap attached to a hose clamp. The general idea here is to screw your coaxial cable's plug onto the bottom of the AB-15, then clamp the hose clamp around that, and attach the short ground wire or the grounding ring to the vehicle's metal chassis or body. This is very important. So, the hot terminal of the cable will go to the actual whip, and the ground/shield of the cable will go by the shortest possible length of strap or braid to the vehicle metallic body. CB RF does not go through paint well, be sure to have a good ground connection.

The other end of the cable you can do a variety of things with. An SWR meter will help you judge each method. The SWR meter, to be anywhere near accurate for this, has to be right at the CB, no more than 1-2FT of cable between the radio and the meter. A cheap meter is fine. From worst to best:

Just connect it to the CB and limit your transmissions to 20% duty cycle and 30 seconds max. talk time per cycle (talk 30 seconds listen 150 seconds) to avoid overheating the CB. This is the least desirable but it will work.

Use a convenient length cable and clamp a 8-12 of those clamp-on RFI ferrite blocks on it. Most electronic stores have them for about $1 or so. This does the same thing basically as the two cable coil suggestions below. The blocks can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The extra energy trying to come back down the cable will be dissipated as a very small amount of heat in the ferrite blocks.

Use a cable that is 6-10FT longer than necessary. Take the extra length and coil it up into a 6-8" diameter circle and secure it to this shape with a few wire ties. This creates an RF choke on the outside of the RF cable and reduces the amount of RF flowing back into the CB, mostly converting it to heat in the cable. You will not detect this since you are only burning up 1-2 watts. The coil of wire can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The coil of cable should be kept 3" from metal.

Use a cable that is 6-10FT longer than necessary. Take the extra length and coil it up into a 3-4" diameter single layer solenoid (coil) on a piece of PVC pipe and secure it to this shape with a few wire ties. This creates an RF choke on the outside of the RF cable and reduces the amount of RF flowing back into the CB, mostly converting it to heat in the cable. You will not detect this since you are only burning up 1-2 watts. The coil of wire can be placed preferrably near the antenna end of the cable. The coil of cable should be kept 3" from metal.

Use a cable of a convenient length and buy a "CB antenna tuner". The tuner goes preferrably at the antenna end of the setup, no more than 1-2 FT from the antenna. Using the SWR meter, tune it on CH 19 since that is the center of the band, for lowest SWR. The tuner usually has two knobs, and they affect each other. Go back and forth between them till the lowest SWR is obtained. The tuner must be protected from weather. This is the best solution.

Any of these solutions can be placed at the CB radio alternately, but the cable from there to the antenna will radiate unwanted RF energy and cause inefficiencies, not only with transmit, but with receive. Matching or supression should always be done at the antenna. SWR measurement should be done at the CB.

Hope this helps.
It's been quite long since this post and this reply of yours,OPCOM.But I should state that you are great.I have the same problem , and have been seeking answer to the same question.Now your reply has enlighted me a lot and releived me.
I own an AB-15 GR base for sometime along with an 8 pieces (265 Cm) mast that I was told possibly an ANT 112 30-35 Mhz , or ANT 129 22-30 Mhz.
I also want to use them with my Maxcom CB,and had been browsing the net for solutions.
The base is brand new in box with all parts on it.
Now what I lack is a CB tuner I think.
Thanks a lot.
 

lostintexas

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Houston, TX
A better combination for a CB antenna would be the MS-116A, 117A, and AB-24/GR sections this will make a shorter antenna with the AB15 mount you should be able to get an SWR around 1.3. If you are getting high SWR or trouble transmitting or receiving, use a ground strap around the so-239 connector grounded to the chassis. Several people have needed to do this, I did not
 

wilfreeman

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Location
Richburg, SC
If all else fails, trim your ms118 down with a tubing cutter. I had to cut around a foot off of mine to get a good swr reading. Works like a champ!
 

dougco1

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Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Cooperstown NY
There was a thread on modifying the MX6707 base for the CB. The base normally tunes down to 30MHz. There was a modification inside, and the base ws set to the lowest freq. range. not sure how reversible. One other post suggested trimming the antenna height and gutting the base, but that is a "wrong thing" to do.
http://69.61.69.210/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1497&highlight=cb+mx6707
and here is an article on doing it, but I don't agree with destroying the base like that. Better to use the AB-15 and whip, and if you upgrade to ham radio you can use an all-band automatic tuner.

Here'sa pic of what someone tried.
http://www.flashoffroad.com/radio/Milantenna/milAntenna.htm
also check this out for the schematic of the antenna, but the file is missing. maybe someone has it?
http://vadim.berkeley.edu/AS1729Sch.pdf
The post on "properly" modifying the MX-6707 was possibly in the MIL VEH list archives or a website.

I use the MX6707 base with my CB and agree with OPCOM. Do not try to modify the base. I ruined a good base trying it. I just used the stock MX6707 base with the matching antenna whip and manually tuned it to its lowest setting. Then I had to trim the matching antenna by 12"-14" to get a good SWR. I get good results in sending and receiving up to a few miles even with the whip tied down horizontally. Also it works great receiving radio skip on channel 6 on sunny days.
 

seyit

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Tokat , Turkey
A better combination for a CB antenna would be the MS-116A, 117A, and AB-24/GR sections this will make a shorter antenna with the AB15 mount you should be able to get an SWR around 1.3. If you are getting high SWR or trouble transmitting or receiving, use a ground strap around the so-239 connector grounded to the chassis. Several people have needed to do this, I did not
Thank you.I have already ordered a set of those MS-116A,117A & 118A sections. I found out that the ones I've had are ANT 129 22-30Mhz.But the threaded male end of the bottom section does not fit in the AB-15/GR.May be kinda adaptor required but no idea if such a thing is available.
I will concider the grounding issue for sure.
Thank you again.
 

seyit

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Tokat , Turkey
If all else fails, trim your ms118 down with a tubing cutter. I had to cut around a foot off of mine to get a good swr reading. Works like a champ!
On a listing of somebody I read that an optional & shorter MS-118K is available.But since trimming works then why to pay more.
 

wilfreeman

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Location
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The sections are hollow tubes - if you don't have a tubing cutter, you could even use wire cutters - although the end would look bad. Just take it a little at the time so that you don't cut too much off. There is a thread on here about how much to cut. I think the overall length (from the base of the AB15 to the tip of the MS-118 is supposed to be like 108" or 109" - whatever a standard cb antenna is. All cb antennas are length adjustable either by cutting or a screw, to tune them to your radio. Same would be true for your antenna - get it close to the correct length and then cut off 1/4" at the time until your SWR meter gives you a good number.
 

kubotaman

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I have read that ab15 antenna bases will work if you have all three pieces and that if they come out to about 108 inches. To feed it into the radio you will need a BNC female to PL 259 adapter sometimes available at radio shack in the back of the store.
 

seyit

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So far as I know all three sections -MS-116,117 and 118 have kinda spiral bottom ends instead of machine thread to allow adjust the height by turning each section or perhaps only one clockwise or otherwise.No idea if this will help to achieve edequate height.However; When extra height is needed more than one 116s can be used and also a shorter 118K is available to eleminate the trimming.
 

wilfreeman

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Correct - the spiral sections are a pretty tight fit so that you can use them to adjust the length for a perfect SWR reading. Try to get the total length as close as possible by cutting because you will only have maybe a 1" adjustment by unscrewing. I did a search and came up with this: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?83553-AB15-for-CB-setup . I believe this was the thread I used when I set mine up. It is saying start with a 110" length including the base.

You shouldn't need an extra mast section for extra height - around 9' is it for a 1/4 wave cb antenna. You will see other shorter antennas on vehicles with coils at the base - the coils bring the total length to about 9'.
 

seyit

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When I unscrew the AB-15 , I get two gaskets between the two halves of the insulator along with the grounding plate.
Now where do both of the gaskets go while mounting on the bracket?One on top of the bracket between the upper half of the insulator and the bracket while the other is between the grounding plate and the bracket under side? Or both gaskets to sandwich the grounding plate underside the bracket?
 

wilfreeman

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Location
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Top of the mount: Gasket, then insulator
Bottom: Grounding plate (get a good ground to the mount), gasket then insulator

Make sure that you have a good ground between the grounding plate and mount, mount and adapter, and adapter to the body. The grounding clamp from the grounding plate should be tightened around the PL259 connector.
 
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