Newbie looking for advise on which 6x6 5th wheel truck tractor to purchase

[CIH7777]

Hello All...I am new to this website and I heard this is the best place to gain some insight on which 6x6 5th wheel military truck tractor is the best to purchase for general dairy farm use and also to pull a loaded 36' or 40' Meyer 9136RT or 9140RT forage semi trailer. http://www.meyermfg.com/9100-forage-box.php I will be driving less than 5 miles each way with this setup and probably 5 to 30mph loaded (60K-80K GVW trailer loads) in farm fields and on rural county roads.

Meyer's Literature in the link above states the following hydraulic requirements I will need for from the truck tractor.Meyer 9100 Series Hydraulic Requirements:
• 40 GPM @ 3,500 PSI Peak Pressure
• Truck Engine RPM @1,500
• Relief Valve @ 3,500
• 40 Gallon Reservoir
• 1-5/16" - 12 JIC Male Connections

I searched for data on the M931/M932 military trucks but did not find anything on the factory hydraulic pump specs.

I am leaning towards a M931A2 or M932A2 at the moment since they both have the 5th wheel, are newer models and are 6x6 with standard super single tires which will come in handy for muddy field conditions. I would like to avoid smaller duals if possible as I they will probably attract and throw too much mud on the county roads.

1. Which models of truck would be best in my situation?

2. Does the M931A2 have the same hydraulic pump installed just like the M932A2 but only without a winch?

3. What are the specifications on the M931A2/M932A2 hydraulic pumps and can they be easily adapted with a wet kit with auxiliary hydraulics and at what ballpark cost? I saw some quotes from posts on other sites of $4K-$5K for a new commercial 2 line wet kit parts without labor to install it.

4. I read another post that I may risk the Allison in the M931A2 or M932A2 not having the drive gear for the PTO installed in the transmission if it was not called for when built. To add this later means taking the transmission apart to put it in there. It may also be impossible to install a PTO to run a wet kit on some Allisons as they are located in a bad spot and not enough room is provided. I also read that when putting a PTO on an Allison then the PTO is only turning when the truck is moving or in neutral unless you can drive it off of the torque converter. Does anyone have specific experience with this?

5. Can I easily add duals in muddy conditions on the back axles of a M931A2, M932A2 or recommended truck and at what cost? Road width is not a problem in my area but will these duals create too much excess wear?

Thank You in Advance!

 

[patracy]

Welcome to the site.

Only the M932, M932A1, and M932A2 would have the PTO and pump installed. A 931 truck would not have anything at all for it. You'll want a truck with a PTO already installed. I can speak from experience. They are not fun at all to try to install in a truck. And mine was cabless at the time!

I'm not sure if the USMC used any 931's. But they'd be another option. USMC trucks came equip with a PTO, pump, tank, and lines. But no front winch. (Go figure) On the upside, true USMC trucks also have lockers in them.

The parts needed would be around that price new. I know wreckerman has a PTO/Pump setup for sale at this moment from a USMC truck. The Allison will have the gear needed.

You can revert a A1 or A2 truck back to a straight 931/932 status just by changing the wheels and lug nuts. And a straight truck can be uplifted to a A1 status by addressing the fenders on the rear.

If it were me, I'd just look for a 932 and plumb in the wet line hoses/fittings.

 

[M813rc]

The USMC did use the 931, but it has been out of the inventory for some years now, since the advent of the MTVR (which replaced all the 5-ton fleet).

Cheers

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

My M931A2 came with everything but the front winch and extensions...... I don't know if they put it on during overhaul or stripped the winch off during overhaul......... It has three different "serial numbers" The black plastic plate has 31/XXXX, overhaul plate has 32/xxxx and another overhaul plate has 33/xxxx It came from Ft. McCoy. Noticed the PTO controls just barely in the photo, so I bid on that "931A2" and won it cheap.

 

[Artisan]

In my book w/ my current limited knowledge you are looking at a tractor
that is wayyyyy to small. 60 to 80K in weight? I don't care if it is only
5 miles away, if your driving on state roads you could be told to PARK IT
if caught. Never mind the tractor brakes will be way overloaded.
Here is a weight table for the M932xx trucks w/ the * footnote.

M932xx = 15,000 Max on 5th wheel and 37,500 Max trailer, that is 1/2 of what you
need to be safe. Will it do it? I bet ya it will, if your worth a couple of bucks
is it worth the lawsuit that you will be found negligent of if there were an accident?




Don't rule out and M915 / m916, M920. (M915 no front drive axle)

The m916 winch has aux ports already, just plug in! I do not know the specs (yet)
if I get a minute I will look, ( I think the GCVW of an M916 is 106,000)
but if you ever might need a steer axle that is powered and if you
need a small monster you will be very pleased w/ them. I paid
about $13K OTD for mine, added A/C, upgraded charging system,
general maintenance that the reset guys could not get right and now
I am enjoying an INCREDIBLY capable truck.
They come w/ a 3" Pin 5th wheel, you have to ditch that and get a normal size,
the ramps too and they are really tall but man, what a beast.

An M939 tractor will be a complete pig loaded down like that.

A2 is OK, the CTIS "will" be a PITA for sure, they all become problematic
when used regularly I read here.

Verify everything I say...........only trying to help

 

[Artisan]

Here are some better M915 Series of trucks weight tables MATT added to the "Artisan's M916" thread.
Post 216 I think...

 

[CIH7777]

I would very much appreciate the specs on the M916/M920 winch aux ports. If I can just go the M915/M916/M920 route instead and not waste time/money to find and then modify a wet kit on a M932A2, it sure would help a lot to have the needed CGVW also. I have some basis mechanical skills but not the engine/tranny rebuild type to modify too many things on these trucks. I hope a M916 or M920 can meet/or exceed the Meyer trailer hydraulic requirements. I like the fact it has the front drive axle.

How would the M916 or M920 handle the 60-80K lbs trailer loads in about 2-6" of sticky clay or mud in farm fields? After having a wet fall this year in the midwest, this is one of my main concerns. Even though I do have regular type farms tractors to use
(but they are tied up half of the time on other tasks) but this would require an additional purchase of a trailer dolly and hitch modifications to use it with a farm tractor. I saw online photos of the M915/M916/M920 trucks and they show that they come with standard truck tires and not agressive tread like the M939 truck tractors. I suppose it could be done to add more agressive tread but I'm not sure how high of a cost I would be looking at as I would like to stay in the $15-20K range or less for the total tractor since I would only use it about 10 weeks/year.

Thanks Artisan...I guess I was being too over confident that the M932A2 could handle the 60-80K lbs loads I am planning to move as I only see those and the older 2.5 tons trucks for sale around my local area. My operators do drive safe but like you mentioned, I don't need a lawsuit from an accident. I am a few hour drive from Ft. McCoy so I will have to check there if they sell any M916/M920's often that are already setup for my situation.

 

[Artisan]

You have to get the TM's, specifically TM 9-2320-273-20 to verify the following.


Within it I found the normal system pressure is "(2350 psi maximum)" but
the auxiliary outlet ports are labeled at 2000 PSI 22 GPM , the ports appear to be 3/4" NPT.





Here is a pic of the back of my winch control console.

Of course there is a LOT more to a hydraulic system then this info, such as tank size.

As to weather of not it will work in mud, well, 80000 pounds PLUS a 30,000 tractor is a
LOT of weight. If you put on 1600-20 tires you might have a better chance BUT you
raise the truck and now the headlights are over 54" from the ground, so again, lawsuit
or do something about it like kill the OE lights and add lights lower, or lower the OE lights.

The M920 is an M916 w/ a tag axle, to the best of my knowledge it is NOT powered, it only
displaces weight on the road better.

Look for M919 on GL just for ships and giggles, their hydraulic system might
be much more robust, just trash the cement maker contraption
and keep the pump MAYBE, but my money is on an M916
for your particular application, IF you can find a good one.

I have mine to a near new condition now. In my book the value is tremendous.
I bet you would spend $100K for a like truck new. Read my thread "Artisan's M916"

 

[Artisan]

snip

it sure would help a lot to have the needed CGVW also. I have some basis mechanical skills but not the engine/tranny rebuild type to modify too many things on these trucks. I hope a M916 or M920 can meet/or exceed the Meyer trailer hydraulic requirements. I like the fact it has the front drive axle.

YOU DIDN'T READ POST #6 DID YOU?

snip

I'm not sure how high of a cost I would be looking at as I would like to stay in the $15-20K

Doable if you find a truck CLOSE and if it is almost good to go from jump street. Adding
1600-20 tires will cost you about $2-3K roughly. All depends. To buy a really nice
truck that someone gambled on and fixed everything will cost you big. I have
spent months pouring over mine, fixing every last little detail, leak, adding A/C and
an upgraded charging system and this and that and brake adjusting and more air leaks
and fan clutch and shutter valve and filters and this and that on and on...

$40K and it's yours. (maybe............ Ha! I would think twice)

 

[CIH7777]

Thanks Artisan! That 916 you have seems like a pretty stout rig! I was hoping too that a 916 would have adequate hyd. features I need. It seems I am getting into a lot more truck now and the price tag keeps going up with the features I need. Since I need that 40/3500 hyd. system for my Meyers trailer I am also seriously cosidering a 8x8 HET also now (along with an M919?) that is a little newer and has the bigger tires and they seem to run in the $20-40K range (even on dealer lots) with low miles. I just have to look up the specs on their hyd. system but it seems for the large winches they have they can handle what I need. The only feature I might have a problem with is the location of the 5th wheel on the HET unless it somehow slides rearward more. I do have a few good Oskosh Truck Mechanics close by so that is a plus with these. I noticed a few worn out 919's for sale but not many low miled ones. I'm just curious now as to why the older 916 and 920's I see for sale are priced almost the same as the HET's and have less features?

 

[Artisan]

HET = 45MPH MAX.
HET = DETROIT DIESEL ENGINE, BIG $ TO FIX
HET = TWIN ELECTRICAL AND I BELIEVE AIR SYSTEMS TOO, LOTS TO BREAK.
HET = You think an M916 is big? A HET is WAYyyyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger than am M916

M916 = 62MPH Max
M916 = MORE DESIRABLE = MORE $
M916 = NTC400 Engine, fixable anywhere.
M916 w/ a NEW CAT 7155 = OK ONLY if you drive it right from day one! ( I have a 7155, I like it! Keeps me busy! HA!~)
M916 w/ an Allison is preferred by all.

What is the turning radius of them, well, you look it up in the TM's.
Let me know what you find.

How much does a HET weigh, How much does a M916 weigh?
Let me know what you find.

What is the GPH of a NTC400?
What is the GPH of a HET?
Let me know what you find.

No matter you have to replace the 5th wheel on an M916, it comes OE w/ a 3" pin set up.

I just got back from Azusa Canyon, CA w/ my M916 for it's first off road
trials and I was VERY impressed w/ how it performed for such a massive rig.
I can see 1600-R20's would be a much better tire for these things in soft stuff / mud.
The skinny Bridgestone's would probably be better for snow.
Did I say I was impressed w/ how the M916 performs off road? WOW! So Cool!

 

[Artisan]

Todays productions;

http://youtu.be/599GOYCMenE

http://youtu.be/I6fpNiFQvE0

 

[Artisan]

I just ran into the winch specs so if you find what it demands hydraulically you will
know what you have ;

WINCH (MODELS M916 AND M920)

Make/Model: DPMFG/4045

Type: Hydraulic Planetary

Capacity: 45,000 Ibs (20411.64 Kg)


You still here?

 

[98G]

I really don't think the 939series are heavy enough for the OP 's purposes. I think artisan is going the right direction with 916s or possibly a HET.

 

[Another Ahab]

Nothing useful to add; but I will say:

- Welcome!

from Virginia.

 

[Tow4]

If you are talking about the sticky clay/mud like the gumbo they have over in ND, you are going to need something with tracks or a large 4X4 tractor to get you out. What do you use now? Maybe you said and I just missed it.

Oh, and welcome from Florida.

 

[Another Ahab]

If you are talking about the sticky clay/mud like the gumbo they have over in ND, you are going to need something with tracks or a large 4X4 tractor to get you out. What do you use now? Maybe you said and I just missed it.

It was back a few episodes but believe whenever needed out there on the farm, that it's the dynamic duo of Massey and Ferguson that comes to the rescue. Might not be correct, but it was a red tractor I think.

 

[Tow4]

My buddy had a big Versatile 4x4 tractor with dual wheels on each corner. Don't remember the model as it was a long time ago but it was in the 400 HP range.

 

[CIH7777]

Thanks for All the Input Everyone! Just got back to looking into this after a few days on the road. I was able to get ahold of TM 9-2320-273-20 after a very long download time and within it found that the 45K Lbs. rear winch is supplied by a "DUAL PUMP. 22 gpm/gear; total of 44 gpm @ 2200 engine rpm, gear type pump poweredby PTO supplies 2350 psi (14,800 kPa) hydraulic pressure to motor through hydraulicvalves." I am waiting on a response from DP Manufacturing to verify the exact gpm and psi that the DPMFG/4045 winch requires. I spoke with a few manufactures also about specs/cost to upgrade to a 40gpm/3500psi 2 line wet kit for the trailer. Still waiting on a response right now on that.

After looking into a few other options, the best choice it seems right now for my situation is a M916 with the Allison Auto Trans. I don't use the A/C often in the northern U.S. so an A2 is not as important. Like Artisan mentioned, after I find one of these I will have to ditch the 3" kingpin and ramps and find the standard 2" someplace. Meyers Mfg. is supposed to measure and get me the trailer king pin height so I know what I have to work with.

The only other modification I can see myself doing is swapping out the smaller wheels with some mud grips, duals or super singles I am not sure about yet. Possibly 16.00-20's if the trailer king pin height allows for it and also adjusting everything to make it road legal. I'm not sure how much of a king pin height the front of the trailer can handle before it causes problems with manuvering, etc...

Right now I use a couple 2.5 tons (I believe they are M35A2's) to pull loads 1/2 the weight (approx. 30-33K lbs) what I will put in the 40' trailer. I have considered another farm tractor but being able to get one with enough weight and 40gpm/3500psi hyd. capacity (only available on newer models) requires big$ in the $100K+ range.

 

[Another Ahab]

Right now I use a couple 2.5 tons (I believe they are M35A2's) to pull loads 1/2 the weight (approx. 30-33K lbs) what I will put in the 40' trailer. I have considered another farm tractor but being able to get one with enough weight and 40gpm/3500psi hyd. capacity (only available on newer models) requires big$ in the $100K+ range.

Apologize if you already mentioned it (and likely I missed it), but how many acres are you working up there?

And also wishing you a fine Thanksgiving Day, today, too!