Niehoff N3030 Regulator/ M1078/ doesn't have flashing light capacity

[Lugnuts]

Hey Gents:
I need to pick up on an old post. The Double Alternator that I ordered still hasn't come so maybe I really need to take a look and heed advice from y'all. Earlier in this post it was stated to but a Niehoff 24 vdc alternator and then use a 12vdc convertor for the 12 vdc leg. Third from Texas and Ronmar posted their ideas and now I would love to hear some more and if possible some schematics as to how to do this. Thank you, Lugnuts

 

[coachgeo]

Hey Gents:
I need to pick up on an old post. The Double Alternator that I ordered still hasn't come so maybe I really need to take a look and heed advice from y'all. Earlier in this post it was stated to but a Niehoff 24 vdc alternator and then use a 12vdc convertor for the 12 vdc leg. Third from Texas and Ronmar posted their ideas and now I would love to hear some more and if possible some schematics as to how to do this. Thank you, Lugnuts

does not have to be Neihoff 24v. Just use a commercial 24v alt.

anyway..... Jerrit now makes a whole kit. Kit also can include AC bracket. Believe it includes serpentine belt upgrade as well.

it has been improved since this article

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if your not member of that group here is his personal page for contact

https://www.facebook.com/groups/154125488331132/user/1071491368

 

[Ronmar]

How much room do you have under the passenger dash? I got an extremely good deal on the converter I shoe-horned under my dash. But a Victron orion 70A 24-12 would fit to the kick panel very easy in most cases

Under the dash is the best IMO as it can be connected up easily with a few short jumper wires and it is way way up above any water and out of the weather. i got the jumpers at a local autoparts store after I measured the lengths i needed to reach between converter and power points.

I put a disconnect sw on the 24v feed on mine, but the victron has a remote control sw option so is easilly controlled from a dash switch.

I talk about how I wired mine in this video.

 

[Third From Texas]

Yeah, I'd not waste the money on a Neihoff. Not that they aren't baddass alts, but at the end of the day they are simply another commercial grade HD piece of hardware. There are a number of HD 24v alts sold, just find one with the desired output/price.

 

[Guruman]

I dropped my balancer in the space freed up by removing the two extra batteries. Three wires make it work. Plus the negative, 12 volt, and 24 volt terminals make for handy hookups for chargers, test connections etc.

 

[Lugnuts]

does not have to be Neihoff 24v. Just use a commercial 24v alt.

anyway..... Jerrit now makes a whole kit. Kit also can include AC bracket. Believe it includes serpentine belt upgrade as well.

it has been improved since this article

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

if your not member of that group here is his personal page for contact

https://www.facebook.com/groups/154125488331132/user/1071491368

Thank you. I submitted a request with FaceBook and I'll take a look at this. I can't express it enough how much I appreciate getting educated by you's guys.

 

[coachgeo]

Thank you. I submitted a request with FaceBook and I'll take a look at this. I can't express it enough how much I appreciate getting educated by you's guys.

what is your facebook name? I can expedite a member request in that group... hmmmmmm.... is it xxx Ludwig?

 

[Lugnuts]

what is your facebook name? I can expedite a member request in that group... hmmmmmm.... is it xxx Ludwig?

Keith Ludwig. Thank you

 

[coachgeo]

Keith Ludwig. Thank you

appears it got rejected cause an anti-spam thing was not checked off . (agreement to follow admin rules) Apply again and I will try to catch it coming thru the pike.

 

[Ronmar]

Yep, answer ALL the questions

 

[coachgeo]

Yep, answer ALL the questions

and check the box that says a person will follow the rules. that gets missed often. IOS, Android and/or the browser being used can affect where that final box or similar is the individual has to click about rule following.... may be beginning.. may be at end??? so scroll thru the rules provided when applying... or you will likely miss the spot to check off and thus get denied membership.

 

[Lugnuts]

and check the box that says a person will follow the rules. that gets missed often. IOS, Android and/or the browser being used can affect where that final box or similar is the individual has to click about rule following.... may be beginning.. may be at end??? so scroll thru the rules provided when applying... or you will likely miss the spot to check off and thus get denied membership.

New one sent! Thank you

 

[coachgeo]

New one sent! Thank you

The owner of the page approved it..... your in (Clinton John Perry) He is member here too.

 

[Lugnuts]

How much room do you have under the passenger dash? I got an extremely good deal on the converter I shoe-horned under my dash. But a Victron orion 70A 24-12 would fit to the kick panel very easy in most cases

Under the dash is the best IMO as it can be connected up easily with a few short jumper wires and it is way way up above any water and out of the weather. i got the jumpers at a local autoparts store after I measured the lengths i needed to reach between converter and power points.

I put a disconnect sw on the 24v feed on mine, but the victron has a remote control sw option so is easilly controlled from a dash switch.

I talk about how I wired mine in this video.

Ronmar,
Thank you for the video on your conversion and I gleaned a whole bunch from that. I have question as well as your counsel on this subject.
I am working with no space in the under dash compartment as the Fire Departments have already utilized that for fuse panels and a place for all sorts of wire junctions. I have on some units when asked to wire them utilized the space where the heater is. This is Florida and just not needed. So I have removed the heater and hoses corresponding with it and that has made a wonderful area for fuses, switches, etc.
The question I have is are the Vanner and Victron units solid state, as in water very resistant. The reason I ask is that I thought that maybe a good place for me to wire that in would be at the polarity box itself. Yes, it would be subjected to outdoor weather but it would have breathing space for cooling since I am running more of a load with emergency lights and communications. I figure I would have to have the 70 to 100 amp box. If the unit needs to be switched on first I can always work that out with a double throw ignition switch.
What do you think and I do value y'alls opinion.
Lugnuts

 

[Ronmar]

Using it in place of the polarity box would also be a logical location for the vanner. It has IPX and ANSI/IEC specs for weather, rain, pressure wash and immersion exposures. IMO it is at least as water-proof as the polarity box is. Putting it in place of the polarity box would also be fairly simple wiring. I have lost count of how many electrical issues I have consulted on that led to issues in that location though, all due to corrosion and deterioration… providing 12V or installed as a balancer it would still need a 24V cutoff sw to remove its drain from the system when not in use.

The Victron is not waterproof and the only location it can be placed is IN the cab. The Victrons can also operate in parallel, so you could add more units to increase 12v capacity beyond 70A, but in the cab is still best for that one…

 

[Lugnuts]

How much room do you have under the passenger dash? I got an extremely good deal on the converter I shoe-horned under my dash. But a Victron orion 70A 24-12 would fit to the kick panel very easy in most cases

Under the dash is the best IMO as it can be connected up easily with a few short jumper wires and it is way way up above any water and out of the weather. i got the jumpers at a local autoparts store after I measured the lengths i needed to reach between converter and power points.

I put a disconnect sw on the 24v feed on mine, but the victron has a remote control sw option so is easilly controlled from a dash switch.

I talk about how I wired mine in this video.

Hey RonMar,
This is Lugnuts and I am asking and opening this conversation up again. I hope you are willing and anybody else who cares to join in.
The dual 24 - 12vdc Alternators are past getting stupid in price. I have a M1078 that is missing an alternator and hurricane season is starting thus making anxious moments because the only time you worry about conditions of trucks is 2 weeks before you might need them. Oh Yea, crisis management.
I reviewed you video and find most of the answers I am looking for. Now I am looking for your guesstamations on 24 volt amp draw and 12 volt amp draw on the stock vehicle. Next a thought of mine came of installing a 110 amp 24vdc and then back at the diode box installing a 24vdc to 12vdc inverter thus avoiding much rewiring at all. The thought on this one is subjection to the outside elements but so far that is the only one I have.
This is where I ask for constructive opinions and hearing what others have done. Also if there were any changes of thought or action that you had since the filming of this installation of your alternator.
Truly appreciate it.

 

[Ronmar]

Hey RonMar,
This is Lugnuts and I am asking and opening this conversation up again. I hope you are willing and anybody else who cares to join in.
The dual 24 - 12vdc Alternators are past getting stupid in price. I have a M1078 that is missing an alternator and hurricane season is starting thus making anxious moments because the only time you worry about conditions of trucks is 2 weeks before you might need them. Oh Yea, crisis management.
I reviewed you video and find most of the answers I am looking for. Now I am looking for your guesstamations on 24 volt amp draw and 12 volt amp draw on the stock vehicle. Next a thought of mine came of installing a 110 amp 24vdc and then back at the diode box installing a 24vdc to 12vdc inverter thus avoiding much rewiring at all. The thought on this one is subjection to the outside elements but so far that is the only one I have.
This is where I ask for constructive opinions and hearing what others have done. Also if there were any changes of thought or action that you had since the filming of this installation of your alternator.
Truly appreciate it.

Well I don't have to guess, I have measured/calculated it, for an A0 truck at least
For a 1078 with the specified incandescent light sizes and everything turned on and high beam while standing on the brake pedal ~27A @13V
I measured the 24V load on my A0 truck and posted about it. Those numbers for 24V load are:

this 24V current was taken on the 24v lead to the cab using a 100A blue sea instrument shunt and gauge. I convert my 12v in the cab.
IGN on: 6A i had the 12v converter off at this point so that was trans and governor run solenoid.
Start and idle: still 6A which dropped to 3A(perhaps the air dryer heater engaged initially or something in the transmission load changed?)
all lights on, high beam(switched to LED and had no taillights for this test): +7.1)(10.1A total). I would expect a full light load of conventional bulbs to pull ~14A@24V
heater blower on high: +7.4A(17.5A total). The heater blower was the largest single 24v load...
wiper on high: +2.1A(19.6A total)

so total load was 19.6A@24v. when I have all my lights(tail and led habitat marker lights), I suspect it will be ~22-25A @24v...

A standard incandescent lit 1078 truck will be ~26A with everything fed via 24v...

an A1 will probably be a little more current powering the ECU vis the run solenoid, but not much more, and LED lights will reduce the load.

110A would be great, but an even more common 75A@24V alt would also work well... It depends on what batteries you are running.

Hurricane/high water rescue? I would NOT put the converter outside. That Victron I referenced above is not very large and should fit very easily under the passenger dash. It is also dead easy to wire there like in my video. i used 3 pre-made heavy gauge cables from my local autoparts store to interface the my converter. 24V from PP to converter, ground from dash to converter and 12V from converter to PP where I disconnected the 12V battery cable.

if you had a failure in the converter you could simply reconnect 12V from the batteries to the power panel and that would get you thru the mission and home pulling 12 out of the middle of the 24v batt temporarily...

 

[Lugnuts]

Well I don't have to guess, I have measured/calculated it, for an A0 truck at least
For a 1078 with the specified incandescent light sizes and everything turned on and high beam while standing on the brake pedal ~27A @13V
I measured the 24V load on my A0 truck and posted about it. Those numbers for 24V load are:

this 24V current was taken on the 24v lead to the cab using a 100A blue sea instrument shunt and gauge. I convert my 12v in the cab.
IGN on: 6A i had the 12v converter off at this point so that was trans and governor run solenoid.
Start and idle: still 6A which dropped to 3A(perhaps the air dryer heater engaged initially or something in the transmission load changed?)
all lights on, high beam(switched to LED and had no taillights for this test): +7.1)(10.1A total). I would expect a full light load of conventional bulbs to pull ~14A@24V
heater blower on high: +7.4A(17.5A total). The heater blower was the largest single 24v load...
wiper on high: +2.1A(19.6A total)

so total load was 19.6A@24v. when I have all my lights(tail and led habitat marker lights), I suspect it will be ~22-25A @24v...

A standard incandescent lit 1078 truck will be ~26A with everything fed via 24v...

an A1 will probably be a little more current powering the ECU vis the run solenoid, but not much more, and LED lights will reduce the load.

110A would be great, but an even more common 75A@24V alt would also work well... It depends on what batteries you are running.

Hurricane/high water rescue? I would NOT put the converter outside. That Victron I referenced above is not very large and should fit very easily under the passenger dash. It is also dead easy to wire there like in my video. i used 3 pre-made heavy gauge cables from my local autoparts store to interface the my converter. 24V from PP to converter, ground from dash to converter and 12V from converter to PP where I disconnected the 12V battery cable.

if you had a failure in the converter you could simply reconnect 12V from the batteries to the power panel and that would get you thru the mission and home pulling 12 out of the middle of the 24v batt temporarily...

If I wired as stated by you how would the 12 vdc battery get charged but now that I write are you charging that or depending on the 2 group 31 threaded post to be charged by the 24vdc which brings us back to the over and undercharging that used to plague the M35 when people wired to one 12 volt/???
I am wanting to do away with the 12 - 24 alternator so I would not be able to just tap in on the 12 volt side if I had a convertor failure.
I am sure we both know what we are talking about I am perhaps just not receiving correctly.

 

[Ronmar]

If I wired as stated by you how would the 12 vdc battery get charged but now that I write are you charging that or depending on the 2 group 31 threaded post to be charged by the 24vdc which brings us back to the over and undercharging that used to plague the M35 when people wired to one 12 volt/???
I am wanting to do away with the 12 - 24 alternator so I would not be able to just tap in on the 12 volt side if I had a convertor failure.
I am sure we both know what we are talking about I am perhaps just not receiving correctly.

the 2 batteries are wired in series, which creates a 24v battery. with 24v applied from a 24v alt, both batteries are charged equally with nothing drawn from the middle of the batteries.

under normal conditions 12v from the battery would be disconnected and 24v would be used to create the 12V via the converter.

in an emergency, if the converter failed, you could as an EMERGENCY workaround reconnect the 12v and draw 12V from the middle of the batteries to get you home/complete the mission. yes the batteries will not charge equally like this but it would work without causing any serious issues for a short duration until you can get another 24-12 converter. if you tried to run it longer duration you could get away with rotating the batteries from the 12-24v positions.

 

[Lugnuts]

the 2 batteries are wired in series, which creates a 24v battery. with 24v applied from a 24v alt, both batteries are charged equally with nothing drawn from the middle of the batteries.

under normal conditions 12v from the battery would be disconnected and 24v would be used to create the 12V via the converter.

in an emergency, if the converter failed, you could as an EMERGENCY workaround reconnect the 12v and draw 12V from the middle of the batteries to get you home/complete the mission. yes the batteries will not charge equally like this but it would work without causing any serious issues for a short duration until you can get another 24-12 converter. if you tried to run it longer duration you could get away with rotating the batteries from the 12-24v positions.

Now I understand, so I say! You are charging the series of batteries to be 24vdc and doing away with the 12vdc side. You are obtaining your voltage right there at the panel ie 24vdc connect at the panel and going to the 12vdc connect at the panel. Now instead of a manual disconnect switch for the convertor can I use a 24vdc solenoid to fire up the 12vdc side or does the 12vdc side control the ignition side to fire up the 24vdc side? Hitting mental recall, I think that is where you said the K2 relay plays in.
If I am wrong on any of this you will not hurt my feelings by straightening me out. Thank you