No start M1008... won't crank & burned 2 fusible links??!! - w/ pics

[Commander5993]

Good Afternoon Everyone!

Have a problem with our 1986 M1008..... been trying to figure it out, and have been searching here on SS. I'm usually pretty good with electrical issues... But this time, I'm not sure what exactly what the problem is....

A little quick history:
Bought this truck a little over 2 years ago, it had 10,000 original miles on it. We (my Dad and I) went through it top to bottom and front to back. It was in great shape over all, with no rust or damage.

The only thing that has been messed with to some degree was the wiring. It hadn't been messed up to bad, but who ever did it, did not know how to replace wire connectors, and did a really bad job with some really cheap crimp-on connectors.

So, I re-did all the connectors, connecting posts, ends, battery cables (cables, cable ends, and terminals). As I did this, I decided to take the time to solder all of the end wire connectors on, while I was at it. As I didn't want some cable corroding a bit, or working loose, and have some intermittent 'hard-to-find' problem later down the road.

I also installed a new GP card, and did the DogHead Starter Relay Mod.

Since then, we have put nearly 10,000 miles on this truck, and the only problem we had ever was the radiator splitting at the seam, which we replaced.


Haven't had any problems with any of the electrical system at all, until two days ago:

My Dad went to move the truck, we had it parked in front of the house to unload it as we had went to town earlier that day.

He got in, turned the key, the wait light went out, tried to start it.... but it just clicked, the starter did not even try to crank or anything. He tried to start it about 3 times. Then he seen some smoke coming out from under the backside of the hood (part of the hood closest to the windshield). So he turned the key off, jumped out and got the batteries disconnected.

Looking at it now, the click sound is the doghead relay kicking in when you hit the key. It does still have power inside the truck with the key in the "on" position. And also when you turn the key to the "start" position, and the GP relay continues to cycle as long as the key is on.

I have tried to start it again, while my Dad was watching under the hood to see if we could see anything. It didn't start, or even crank, just once again the Doghead Relay clicking.

BUT there was also no smoke, and the fusible links (as they only burned off the plastic casing, but the wire still intact) did not even get warm.....

The Only wires that I have found to have any damage, is two fusible links (Shown below) I thought a mouse might have eaten a wire somewhere, but I have not found any evidence of this, nor any other bad wires under the hood or inside the truck.

*The First Fusible link connects to the terminal rail by the fuel filter.




*The Second Fusible link connects to the common 12v stud by the GP relay.



***These are the wires I show in the photos, the circle is an enlargement showing the burned plastic casing.



Question #1: Does anyone know what (or where) these two fusible links have in common?

Question #2: Could I have a bad starter? I haven't had any problems with the starter in the past 2 years, not once. But I also know that any electrical item can die at any time.


Question #3: If the started died, and was pulling a huge amount of amps, could this alone had burned these fusible links?
If not, then it means I still have another problem somewhere else....


Also, I have heard/read that some people are replacing fusible links with maxi fuses.
Which to me seems like a great upgrade. Any drawbacks with doing this?

Any Help and Input is Much Appreciated!
Thanks All!

 

[richingalveston]

sounds like you have a bad starter solenoid. check the fusable links with a meter. they are probably bad even though they still look good. The starter solenoid can get a dead short causing things to burn up.

read the stickies about the starter circuit and starter run on.

fix the starter replace the fusable links and things should be fine. do not continue to try and start, you will just burn other wires. use a meter to check all wires to make sure none have already burned

 

[Commander5993]

sounds like you have a bad starter solenoid. check the fusable links with a meter. they are probably bad even though they still look good. The starter solenoid can get a dead short causing things to burn up.

read the stickies about the starter circuit and starter run on.

fix the starter replace the fusable links and things should be fine. do not continue to try and start, you will just burn other wires. use a meter to check all wires to make sure none have already burned

Agreed richingalveston, I figured it must be the starter, there just wan't much else left with no other bad wires or other problems found. Its just a starter usually gives some other symptoms or warning, this one didn't do anything, just plain out died.

I was going to get ready to pull it off and have it tested.... except now my other truck (which I was going to drive) has some brake issues... again.

I'll go back through the starter sticky posts.
And yes, I already disconnected the batteries again. And no I don't need any more wires to burn

Thanks for the Reply!

 

[Commander5993]

hummm... guess I shouldn't use a maxi fuse in place of a fusible link in the starting circuit....
Oh well, have to read the gauges and see if I have the right fusible link wire, if not I'll have to pick up the right sizes when I'm able to make it to an autoparts store.

Hope nothing else goes wrong with our other truck.... other wise I guess I'll have to drive the deuce to the auto parts store

 

[Commander5993]

OK.......

From what I have been able to find and read, it is suggested to have a starter rebuilt instead of buying a 'cheap store brand'.

Only problem is, I am way out in the country. The closest town with even an actual autoparts store (napa, oreilies, autozone, etc) is about 30 miles from here. And even there, I don't know of Any shops or businesses who rebuild starters.

I tried to go to cucvelectric.com only to find that the site was down.
So I search SS and I just found that John took down CUCV Electric and said it is Out of Business...
That was the first place I went for MV parts...

So..... Does anyone know if there is a place where I can order a starter rebuild kit? And and new starter solenoid?

Been through the starter sticky info, and also have been (and still am) searching here on SS.
But so far, I'm not coming up with anything. I also tried looking for part numbers, but nothing there either.

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, so I keep searching, and I was finally able to find two part numbers for the 6.2 CUCV starter, in the CUCV Wiki.... (I thought it would be in the FAQ/Sticky section instead...)

#1 is the AC Delco # 1113591

#2 Is the number for the Wilson # WIL 91-01-4376

The Wiki also said the Wilson could be found at most autoparts stores.

So I looked up O'reilly, and found this listed for that part number:

http://goo.gl/FoJbC4

Three Questions:
#1 Is this the Correct Starter?
#2 Is the Wilson a good quality starter?
#3 OR should I try to find an AC Delco starter or rebuild kit?


Thanks for Any Input Guys

 

[Commander5993]

I think I'd still rather go with a rebuild kit if I could find one somewhere...

 

[Warthog]

You need to find out what type of starter you have. A direct drive or a gear reduction.

Also is your truck still 24v? We will assume it is.

Www.aspwholesale.com has kits. You need to talk to them on the phone to make sure you get the correct version.

being in the country your repair time will be longer.

 

[Commander5993]

You need to find out what type of starter you have. A direct drive or a gear reduction.

Also is your truck still 24v? We will assume it is.

Www.aspwholesale.com has kits. You need to talk to them on the phone to make sure you get the correct version.

being in the country your repair time will be longer.

Hi Warthog!

Yes the truck is still 24 volt.

Still has the original starter, I'm going to take it off in the morning... depending on the weather.
Once I get it off and clean it up a bit, I'll know exactly what I've got.

Thanks for the info on ASP Wholesale, once I'm sure about what I've got, I can give them a call.

Thanks for the Info!

 

[Commander5993]

Just wanted to post a quick update:
I took the starter off today... before it started snowing

And I found that on the back side of the starter (side that faces against the block) that the entire ear on the starter, where the bolt goes through, had broke. The entire corner piece fell out when I removed the mounting bolt.

I'm thinking that if this allowed the starter to move just a bit, that it might have caused it to 'lock' up against the fly wheel... which caused the fusible links to burn



I'd still like to have it tested though, just to see if it does spin up. Have to ask and see if Oreilly can test a 24v starter...

In either case... I no longer have a choice to rebuild.

Wish AC Delco still made them, but from searching the internet, they apparently do not.
But at least I can order a Wilson (Part # 91-01-4376) from Oreilly's.

Anyway, thats the update for today. It will most likely been late next week before I can get another one in.
But will post more then.

 

[Warthog]

You can get a replacement nose cone for around $20. Barrman has posted the part number before.

You are lucky that the engine block didn't break. I have a low hour 6.5 that has a broken mount ear.

 

[cucvrus]

Sir there is nothing special about your CUCV starter. Other then it being 24 volt. We have a Mennonite fella nearby that does all our rebuilding for us. I have been using him for years as does the local ANG base Fort Indiantown Gap. He can still rebuild that starter. It will just require a replacement nose. I know of 2 types on the direct drive a closed nose mudder type and a standard open nose. It appears you have a closed nose mudder type. Either one will work for you. I have seen starters on CUCV's that are made of cast iron. I am unsure where they came from but they were HD. Let me know if you need to get that replaced. I can help you out if you would like. Please advise. I usually spend about $150. to have a direct drive rebuild that is on the high side. Good Luck either way.

 

[Commander5993]

You can get a replacement nose cone for around $20. Barrman has posted the part number before.

You are lucky that the engine block didn't break. I have a low hour 6.5 that has a broken mount ear.

Really?! I did not know that. I'll try the search to find the part number.

Thanks Warthog

And yes, if the engine block had broke.... that would have been Extremely Bad

 

[cpf240]

Did the starter have the support bracket on it? If not, make sure one gets put on when the starter is reinstalled.

 

[Commander5993]

Sir there is nothing special about your CUCV starter. Other then it being 24 volt. We have a Mennonite fella nearby that does all our rebuilding for us. I have been using him for years as does the local ANG base Fort Indiantown Gap. He can still rebuild that starter. It will just require a replacement nose. I know of 2 types on the direct drive a closed nose mudder type and a standard open nose. It appears you have a closed nose mudder type. Either one will work for you. I have seen starters on CUCV's that are made of cast iron. I am unsure where they came from but they were HD. Let me know if you need to get that replaced. I can help you out if you would like. Please advise. I usually spend about $150. to have a direct drive rebuild that is on the high side. Good Luck either way.

Hi cucvrus! I actually have a Wilson starter ordered, it's coming UPS to my house. I need to get this truck back running asap as it's my daily driver. Our other truck (99' dodge) is not to reliable... had a whole host of problems with it lately....

However, if I can still fix this starter, I may replace the nose cone and rebuild it, just to have an extra on hand.

Do you sell the nose cone and rebuild kits?
If so PM me a price and info.

Thanks for the Reply!

 

[Commander5993]

Did the starter have the support bracket on it? If not, make sure one gets put on when the starter is reinstalled.

Hi cpf240!

Hummmm....... Ok...... Going to go try to look up the TM to see what bracket you are talking about

I know I read somewhere in the sticky's... or the wiki... that some of them had a bracket and there being two possible styles or something...
I Didn't know that All were Required to have a bracket.

And no, it didn't have one on it.... So I'm guessing that is most likely what caused this one to crack in the first place... right?


Thanks for the heads up!

 

[doghead]

No support bracket is definitely the cause of your issue.

All starters need them.

 

[Warthog]

Post number 12 shows the two styles of support brackets.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?15551-Starter-bracket-bolt-size

The support bracket for the direct drive starters are no longer available from the dealer. However it seems that CUCVRUS has had some made and is selling them. Many have made their own.

 

[Commander5993]

No support bracket is definitely the cause of your issue.

All starters need them.

Hi Doghead!

Yeah, I can see why, with the starter hanging by only two bolts on the one end.
Wish I had noticed that before now, but at least it broke (didn't start) here at the house and didn't leave me sitting somewhere.

Thats one reason why one of the first things I did to this truck was your relay mod. Didn't want to either be sitting somewhere, or worse a run away starter.

 

[Commander5993]

Post number 12 shows the two styles of support brackets.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?15551-Starter-bracket-bolt-size

The support bracket for the direct drive starters are no longer available from the dealer. However it seems that CUCVRUS has had some made and is selling them. Many have made their own.

Thanks Warthog!

I also found it in the CUCV Wiki too:

***bracket bolt - 14060613 - M8 x 1.25 x 20 - hardware store
***starter bracket DD - 14028931

I was just thinking I would have to figure out the bolt sizes when I came across that info in the Wiki.
That one note alone just saved me a lot of time laying in the snow

Just another reason why I love SS so much. Its a real vital resource with this and our deuce.


Anyway, so far I have only found one online that is actually available, most are 'discontinued' or 'out of stock'.
I'll pm CucvRus and see if he has any and get a price. Would prefer to buy from a fellow SS member anyway, instead of some unknown site.

Yeah, I was already thinking about just making one. There's not much to it, basically a bent piece of angle iron with two holes. Just have to get everything lined up right.
If we had our garage up, I could make one in short order.

I can still make one now.... just have to drag my welder and tools out and over to my stump vise. Just not great to do in the rain/snow and cold.
But its supposed to warm back up into the 40's here in a few days, if I haven't bought one by that time, I may make it then.