No start M1008... won't crank & burned 2 fusible links??!! - w/ pics

[TGP (IL)]

You must be missing the support bracket at the other end of the starter motor?
Or it was loose?
That appears to be the earlier direct drive starter not the later gear drive.
Same as your link to O'reilly's

It's late Sorry I didn't read far enough, my bad.
Glad you got figured out.
TGP

 

[Warthog]

Here is a thread about starter cases and a source for a new nose cone. I just googled "27MT Nose Cone"

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?114902-Starter-cases

http://store.alternatorparts.com/partno511111delcooe198556710496538lesternos6343.aspx

And I did check the Oreilly's link for the Wilson Starter. It is the correct one.

 

[Commander5993]

You must be missing the support bracket at the other end of the starter motor?
Or it was loose?
That appears to be the earlier direct drive starter not the later gear drive.
Same as your link to O'reilly's

It's late Sorry I didn't read far enough, my bad.
Glad you got figured out.
TGP

Hey TGP (IL)! Yep, you are correct

 

[Commander5993]

Here is a thread about starter cases and a source for a new nose cone. I just googled "27MT Nose Cone"

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?114902-Starter-cases

http://store.alternatorparts.com/partno511111delcooe198556710496538lesternos6343.aspx

And I did check the Oreilly's link for the Wilson Starter. It is the correct one.

Wow Warthog Thanks a Bunch!
I've been going to look, but haven't had time to even get on here for 2 days now. Pitching and Catching right now.

I think I'll order the nose cone and a rebuild kit you posted, and rebuild this starter to have a backup on hand.
Definitely worth the $ to do... worst part is the $50 core charge on the Wilson I ordered.

But $100 to be able to have a backup starter, is better than the truck begin down for days if I ever have this problem again.

Thanks Again!

 

[cucvrus]

I dropped one of the direct drive starter support brackets in the mail for you today. I also sent you the bolt and the nut for you to install it. I did get the correct size bolt for you but it has a 12mm drive head instead of a 13mm. Everything else is correct and ready to go. Good luck with your install. Please advise if I can be of any further assistance. Thank you for your business.

 

[Commander5993]

I dropped one of the direct drive starter support brackets in the mail for you today. I also sent you the bolt and the nut for you to install it. I did get the correct size bolt for you but it has a 12mm drive head instead of a 13mm. Everything else is correct and ready to go. Good luck with your install. Please advise if I can be of any further assistance. Thank you for your business.

Thanks CucvRus! Appreciate it, will be looking for it.

The starter is supposed to be here tomorrow.

I still have to go and buy some fusible link wire. But I have to identify what gauges I need first, as it looks to be 2 different sizes. But the size is not on (or not readable) on either one of the links that burned.

So anyway, hopefully I get this fixed and backup running as soon as possible.
I'm going to buy a new nose cone, and rebuild the old starter. And have several sizes of fusible link wire on hand from now on.

Will update when I get it on, hopefully this is the only problem.

Thanks All!

 

[cpf240]

For the fusible link info, check this thread: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?122571-Fusible-Links-101

 

[Warthog]

Read the size of the link on the black plastic cover. It will say 12 or 16

The red wire at the 24v POS terminal block is 16ga



The blue wire at the 12v Terminal Block is 12ga



I can tell what the size is because of the color of the wire.

Here is a picture of a link connector. I have highlighted where the wire size is stamped into the plastic cover.



Looking at the other wires at the 12v terminal block, someone has replaced a few fusible links in the past. The colors are not stock and the black plastic connector covers are missing. You will want to check the link sizes (should be printed on the replacement wire) to make sure they are correct

 

[Commander5993]

For the fusible link info, check this thread: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?122571-Fusible-Links-101

Yep, I've been reading it.

Edit:
Well let me rephrase that, I am reading it... but theres a lot good info in the additional comments below the two main posts.

Thanks!

 

[Commander5993]

Read the size of the link on the black plastic cover. It will say 12 or 16

The red wire at the 24v POS terminal block is 16ga

View attachment 527690

The blue wire at the 12v Terminal Block is 12ga

View attachment 527691

I can tell what the size is because of the color of the wire.

Looking at the other wires at the 12v terminal block, someone has replaced a few fusible links in the past. The colors are not stock and the black plastic connector covers are missing. You will want to check the link sizes (should be printed on the replacement wire) to make sure they are correct

Ahhhh..... its on the black connector... well, that makes more sense.
Should have known it would have to be located somewhere else besides on the wire covering....

I didn't know the wire color would also specify the gauge, that makes it much easier too.


Appreciate the heads up about the other fusible links. I'll go through all of them, see what they are, and find out what they should be. Replace as necessary.
I'm going to pick up all the sizes of fusible link wire to keep on hand. From what I have read I believe all the fusible links found on the truck are one of either 4 different gauges: 12, 16, 18, & 20 gauge. So I'll get all four gauges to get these repaired, and keep for any future issues.

I definitely don't want something to be un-protected, and end up frying the wiring harness... or even just frying one wire, and me having to go through the entire wiring harness trying to locate where the break is. So this is something that I will take the time to do and get ahead of it, before I have any more issues.

Thanks Again for all the help Warthog
It is Very Much Appreciated

 

[cucvrus]

If I had known I would have sent you some of the fusable link wire also. Maybe now is the time to put in a Maxi Fuse and eliminate the burning wire option. I never done it but it would work. Anyone am I correct about it doing the same thing? And it is easier to replace a fuse then cut the wire and splice into it. Good Luck.

 

[Commander5993]

If I had known I would have sent you some of the fusable link wire also. Maybe now is the time to put in a Maxi Fuse and eliminate the burning wire option. I never done it but it would work. Anyone am I correct about it doing the same thing? And it is easier to replace a fuse then cut the wire and splice into it. Good Luck.

Hi CucvRus! I had originally intended replacing the fusible links with maxi fuses just like you mentioned, as it would make it much easier to change out a blown fuse in the future. But at least from what I understand (and I could be wrong) that doing so isn't advisable.

But I don't know for sure. I'd like to change them out if they would work ok and be safe. I also am not sure what the fusible link wire gauge equals in fuse amps either. I would have to research that and find out for sure.

 

[cucvrus]

I would tend to use an overkill on the wire gauge of the maxi fuse holder and then monitor the load by the size fuse I would install. I am not an engineer or and electrician but I have installed maxi fuses in the place of the fusable links. The maxi fuse holder I used had heavy 8 Gauge wire and I put a 30 amp maxi fuse in. Fusible link is old school and would just take more abuse then a fuse. It generally just takes longer to burn completely thru a fuseable link then the split second it takes to pop a fuse and loose everything. That is my spin on things. Like I said I know enough to get by for many years and have never sat along the road very long even when things got rough. Keep it as designed and keep it well maintained and these vehicles like most will serve you well. Use di-electric grease sparingly on all the under hood connections. It is only my opinion and I am open for debate and correction.

 

[Commander5993]

Well, I have an update.... sort of...

Got the Wilson starter today via UPS.
The large outside box was in perfect condition, no tears, holes, dents, etc.

A lot of heavy packing material in the box, with the smaller box which contained the starter in the middle of the packing material.

The starter box was also in perfect condition.

I opened that box, pulled the starter out, and found that it had been dropped.
The main large post, which is the battery connection, on the solenoid was severally bent to the point that you couldn't even spin the nut all the way up. And it was most likely broken internally.

The worst thing is, it came with a full "test sheet" paper, which supposedly showed when the starter was tested before being boxed.
With the full read out of load specs and such, even including a graph read out.

So there is no way who ever boxed this starter didn't know that post was broken, but they boxed it anyway........

Anyway, called O'reilly (who I ordered it through) and they are ordering another one from Wilson, and are going to ship it to the closest O'reilly to me (about 30 miles away). Once its in, I'm going to exchange this was there at their store. Which is ok I guess, as that is where I was going to go to get my fusible link wire anyway.


On a brighter note, while we were waiting on UPS today, we were able to get our other truck fixed
So at least we have transportation now.


................ Hope nothing else breaks.......

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, another short update:

O'reilly finally got the replacement starter for the broken replacement starter that they shipped me. So I went to their store, inspected, and picked up the new replacement....
but they did not have the fusible link that I needed... so I found and ordered a kit of 6 different gauges off ebay, and it'll be here in a couple days.

In the mean time, I was able to get the new Wilson starter installed today.... sorry didn't take pics, it was kind of a spare of the moment thing.

I also had the new starter bracket that I ordered from CucvRus (Thanks Again CucvRus)

It all went together... but I can REALLY Understand why people would get frustrated and give up trying to re-install the starter bracket. It was a Real Pain to get it in that tight space. It was especially hard to get the top bolt hole lined up and get the bolt to start to thread, all with one hand mind you, as you (or at least I) could only get one of my big hands in there at a time.
Whoever designed this and thought that was a good position and location to put the bracket really needs to be taken out and ... ok so maybe they don't quite deserve that ... but you get the idea.


Anyway... finally got it all buttoned up properly now, and hopefully we won't have any more problems in the future. But just in case, I am going to repair/rebuild the old starter and keep it as a back up instead of turning it back in for a core. Costly as I can't get my core charge back, but at least we'll have a good back-up ready if anything does happen down the road.

Now as soon as my fusible link wire kit comes in, I can fix the two fusible links that burned, and we should be back up & running.


While I had the truck jacked-up, I also went ahead and gave it an oil and filter change.
Installing a new Mobile 1 filter, and refilling with Rotella-T 15w-40 oil with approx 1 qt of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.

Should be good for another 3 thousand miles.

Well that's it for now,
Peace

 

[scottladdy]

Hi CucvRus! I had originally intended replacing the fusible links with maxi fuses just like you mentioned, as it would make it much easier to change out a blown fuse in the future. But at least from what I understand (and I could be wrong) that doing so isn't advisable.

But I don't know for sure. I'd like to change them out if they would work ok and be safe. I also am not sure what the fusible link wire gauge equals in fuse amps either. I would have to research that and find out for sure.

There are a number of reliable products that can be utilized to replace fusible links. They key is to understand that a fusible link behaves much like what is commonly referred to as a time delay or slow blow fuse where the time-current characteristic is longer. "Maxi", "Mega" and "Pacific" type fuses are used in every modern motor vehicle I am aware of, and these vehicles are considered far more reliable than our venerable old CUCV's.

Often, these fuses are grouped together in an under hood fuse box. Our trucks were not designed to include such a modern concept. As such, it is often most convenient to add these fuses "in line". If this is done, ensure you utilize a weather tight holder or enclosure.
http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-passenger-car.aspx

 

[Commander5993]

There are a number of reliable products that can be utilized to replace fusible links. They key is to understand that a fusible link behaves much like what is commonly referred to as a time delay or slow blow fuse where the time-current characteristic is longer. "Maxi", "Mega" and "Pacific" type fuses are used in every modern motor vehicle I am aware of, and these vehicles are considered far more reliable than our venerable old CUCV's.

Often, these fuses are grouped together in an under hood fuse box. Our trucks were not designed to include such a modern concept. As such, it is often most convenient to add these fuses "in line". If this is done, ensure you utilize a weather tight holder or enclosure.
http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-passenger-car.aspx

Hi Scottladdy! Thanks for the reply and info.

I thought about it for a few days, but in the end since this is the first time since we've owned the truck (nearly 3 years now) that any fusible links had burned, I just went ahead and replaced the burned fusible links with new all new fusible links. If I start having more problems and burn the links more often, then I will contemplate upgrading to maxi-fuses.

 

[Commander5993]

Another Update...

Ok, the last update I posted, I had just gotten the Brand New Wilson starter and bracket installed.

Today, I finally had time (and the weathers cooperation) to replace the two fusible links and go through the rest. I replaced the two links that had burned. And while going through and checking the other fusible links, I found another 12 gauge link on the 24v terminal block/bus-bar which had electrical tape wrapped around it. I could guess what I would find, but I took a moment to remove the tape anyway, and yep sure enough I found that it had burned the rubber coating off at some point in the past, and a previous owner had just taped it up. The wire was still making a decent connection, but I went ahead and replaced this fusible link anyway.

So.... when I got all the links back to their proper places, and everything buttoned up. I reconnected the batteries, put the key in the ignition, all the power came on, wait light went out, I hit the key AND...... nothing. The starter never even kicked, and everything else went off.......

When I hit the key, I did hear the doghead relay under the dash 'click', but all other lights and power went out until I let the key go back to the 'run' position. The starter never did anything. Just as it had done when this first happened.

The only up-side is this time no fusible links burned, none of them even got warm.

I was going to check the power at the starter, but found that the multi-meter I was using only went up to 12v on the dc side...
And of course I can't find my good multi-meter... so until I find it I can't test the 24 volt side of things.

Even Still... at this point I'm not sure whats going on.
I have not been able to find any other links nor wires that have burned, or any other bad connections.
This is the first electrical problem I have had since I got the truck. As I said before, right after I got it, I went through all the electrical system and connections. Replaced a lot of connections, including all the battery cables and also the battery terminals with NOS military terminals, which are far superior to the junk most auto parts stores sell.

I'm now guessing that my old starter is actually good (other than the nose cone was broke) and rather than the starter being bad, that something else has happened which prevented both the old starter and this new starter from working. I haven't yet had the old starter tested, but will do so soon, as I have been able to locate a starter & alternator rebuild shop.

I'm now wondering if it is a "sudden" Ground Problem....

OR...

if the mouse which I have seen signs of (small shelled-out acorns under the hood) has eaten a wire somewhere that I have yet to find.

In any case, I'll keep looking and trying to figure this out. Just hope we don't get anymore rain for a few days.
Looks like I have to find my 'good' multi-meter, and take a test light, and start going wire-by-wire...

If anyone has any ideas or input, as Always it would be Greatly Appreciated

~Thanks

 

[richingalveston]

Check your engine ground strap.
Sounds like your starter is not grounded. When your starter solenoid fried it may have sent 24V to the block and if the ground strap was old and corroded it may have burnt like the fusible links.

should be located at the back of the engine passenger side.

good luck,
Rich

 

[cpf240]

Have the batteries been fully charged and load tested? All the lights going out in the crank position is one of the classic signs of a bad / low battery.