No start M1008... won't crank & burned 2 fusible links??!! - w/ pics

[doghead]

Or a bad battery cable. Test with an ohm meter and replace any that are suspicious.

 

[Commander5993]

Check your engine ground strap.
Sounds like your starter is not grounded. When your starter solenoid fried it may have sent 24V to the block and if the ground strap was old and corroded it may have burnt like the fusible links.

should be located at the back of the engine passenger side.

good luck,
Rich

Hi Richingalveston! Thanks for the reply.

Yes, Grounding is what I intend to look next, as the symptoms are pointing in that direction.
I hadn't thought about a ground strap burning though like the fusible links did, that is a good possibility and if is the case then the old starter may indeed be bad after all.

I'll start looking at the grounds... as soon as it stops raining and the ground dries a bit.

 

[Commander5993]

Have the batteries been fully charged and load tested? All the lights going out in the crank position is one of the classic signs of a bad / low battery.

Hi Cpf240!
I replaced both batteries about 2 years ago. They are Heavy Duty Interstate with the highest cranking amps I could get.
With the initial problem happening, right after we had drove to and back from town, I don't think the batteries are bad or anything. I don't personally have a load tester, but if it turns out that its not a ground problem, I will hold my multi-meter on the batteries while someone hits the key, to see how much the voltage drops.

However it is possible since the truck has been sitting for couple weeks since then, they could have run down just a bit.
So I'll throw the charger on them, while I'm going through the grounds, just to make sure they are topped up.

 

[Commander5993]

Or a bad battery cable. Test with an ohm meter and replace any that are suspicious.

Hi Doghead!

I replaced all the battery cables about 2 years ago, with some heavy duty quality cable that I ordered.

But anything is possible, I had already planned to go through all the cable ends and bus-bars, and just give everything a fresh clean-up and check all the connectors and such. I"ll go through the cables while I'm at it just to be sure.

 

[Warthog]

Before diving to deep, make sure the new starter relay is actually functioning. Sometimes new parts are DOA.

 

[Commander5993]

Latest Update:

My Dad and I spent most of the day yesterday, working on the CUCV.

I searched for and found the ground strap on the top back passenger side of the engine, just below the edge of the air filter... although after finding it, I searched more thinking surely there is another one somewhere else, as this one seemed (to me) to be too puny to be the main engine ground... But after not finding another, and searching here on SS, this is the only one I was able to locate.

After locating the engine ground strap, I found that someone had replaced the connector to the engine side of the ground strap. The connector they put on was yet another cheap 12 gauge crimp connector. One of the few that I missed when I re-did a lot of wiring 2 years ago, as I replaced a few dozen of these things, as who ever did them didn't know what they were doing.



Upon seeing the cheap connector, I gently pulled on the ground strap, and just a little tug pulled it out of the connector. How it was even working all this time... I don't know.


While I was looking under the truck, to see if I could find another ground strap or any other fried wiring etc. My Dad was up on a small step ladder, looking over the engine, when he noticed a red wire which looked to be touching the exhaust manifold. So he pulled on it, and found that it was not only touching, but had melted on the manifold, it popped off when he pulled on it.



After tracing the wire, we found that this red wire had been spliced into the solid purple wire by a PO, which goes through the wiring harness and to the Doghead rely under the dash. We believe this spliced red wire burned by, and then grounding out on the exhaust, may have been our Initial Problem, which caused all of the issues to begin with.

So... I traced the purple wire back as much I could through the wiring harness, and it seemed to look good to the firewall. I cut about a foot before the PO's splice, and soldered a heavy barrel connector on. I then added a length of red 10 gauge wire into the other side of the barrel connector soldering it as well, and then covered the entire splice in heat shrink.

I ran the new 10 gauge red wire from there, all the way to the starter solenoid. replacing the entire section that the PO had done. I then soldered a new solid copper connector to the starter end.

It was a pickle to get to the starter solenoid, remove the old wire, and install this new one, With-Out Removing the starter. But I jacked up the frame of the truck at the front, and had just enough room to get my big hand and a ratchet in there. I couldn't even see what I was doing, had to do it by feel. But I finally got it on, and zip-tied the wire up in several places to keep it tucked up safe and away anything that could make an issue.

I then went about making a new ground strap. I had a short piece (foot?) of 4 gauge copper battery cable, which was far larger than the original ground strap. I soldered two heavy duty solid copper terminals on each end, shrink-tubed them. I had to put a larger connector on the end that went to the stud on the block, and the next size down on the other end which went to the bolt in the fire wall. I would have rather ran one from an alternator bracket or something, down to the frame. But I couldn't find an easier place to connect to, which my 4 gauge cable would reach... I may add a smaller wire as an additional ground if it seems to be needed.

With having both of these fixed, we thought for sure that the truck was fixed.
But once again, after having re-connected the batteries, when I turned the key... the starter still did not even click.
Only the Doghead relay engaged.


SO....... I'm going to go back out today, and start testing for voltages (since we finally found our 'Good' multi-meter yesterday) starting at the Doghead relay. I just don't think the starter solenoid is getting power... but I'm just not sure why, unless its something under the dash. I don't if there is fusible links under the dash or not. Or if there is a wire that fried under there somewhere.
I'm also going to try to locate the ground strap under the dash, as from what I read on one SS post, there's supposed to be one under there somewhere.

Anyway, thats the current update.
I hope we can find the problem today and get this truck back on the road... plus I'm kind of tired of working in cold

 

[Commander5993]

Before diving to deep, make sure the new starter relay is actually functioning. Sometimes new parts are DOA.

Hi Warthog, Yep should have done that before I ever installed it, as its always possible.
"New" doesn't mean it works, thats for sure.

Thanks

 

[cucvrus]

You should have a heavy black ground cable from the - buss bar to the block on the right side rear intake nanifold stud. 2/0 would be good. I run a grond from the front intake stud on the right to the frame also 2/0 cable. Check it out.
Grounds under dash above ebrake pedal. I don't think that is the issue but check it anyway.

 

[Commander5993]

You should have a heavy black ground cable from the - buss bar to the block on the right side rear intake nanifold stud. 2/0 would be good. I run a grond from the front intake stud on the right to the frame also 2/0 cable. Check it out.
Grounds under dash above ebrake pedal. I don't think that is the issue but check it anyway.

Yes, there was the main battery ground cable going from the buss bar to the block, the same stud as the engine ground. Is that buss bar grounded to the truck body? It looked as if it was isolated, I thought it only went to the the negative battery cables.

Yep, I'd like to add a 2/0 ground to the alt. I have a short piece of 2/0 battery cable, from when I re-did all the battery cables on our M35-A2, which I would have used yesterday on the Alt to frame, but it wasn't long enough.

 

[cucvrus]

I don't think you can ever have enough of good grounds from the frame to the body, engine to the frame and the some good clean grounding points with some star washers on each headlamp and the tail lamps always helps. These are getting old and the ground connections are getting a little corroded. Use some dielectric grease on all the connections after you clean them. I an not saying tear the whole vehicle apart but if you are there clean and grease everything in the area you are working. Adding some LED bulbs where you can helps also. I have Truck lite electronic flashers on all my trucks.

 

[cpf240]

...Yep, I'd like to add a 2/0 ground to the alt. I have a short piece of 2/0 battery cable, from when I re-did all the battery cables on our M35-A2, which I would have used yesterday on the Alt to frame, but it wasn't long enough.

If the truck is still in the stock 24v/12v configuration, just make sure you only connect your ground to the driver's side alt, GEN1.

 

[Commander5993]

If the truck is still in the stock 24v/12v configuration, just make sure you only connect your ground to the driver's side alt, GEN1.

Yep, I should have mentioned that, good point.
As on the stock 24/12-volt setup, the Passenger side has an Isolated Ground, correct?

 

[cpf240]

Yep, I should have mentioned that, good point.
As on the stock 24/12-volt setup, the Passenger side has an Isolated Ground, correct?

Yes!

 

[Warthog]

The actual negative buss bar behind the rear battery is not grounded directly to the body.

 

[Commander5993]

I don't think you can ever have enough of good grounds from the frame to the body, engine to the frame and the some good clean grounding points with some star washers on each headlamp and the tail lamps always helps. These are getting old and the ground connections are getting a little corroded. Use some dielectric grease on all the connections after you clean them. I an not saying tear the whole vehicle apart but if you are there clean and grease everything in the area you are working. Adding some LED bulbs where you can helps also. I have Truck lite electronic flashers on all my trucks.

Yep, I use dielectric grease on bulbs and any connector that isn't soldiered. Good stuff, stops corrosion, and seals water out. Works even better with the rubber housing military connectors like on the deuce, as the rubber housing helps keep the grease in place and last longer.

Any connection that I don't replace, I thoroughly clean with CRC Electrical Contact Cleaner and a wire brush if possible.



I don't have any led lights, but I have plenty of extra stock bulbs.

 

[Commander5993]

The actual negative buss bar behind the rear battery is not grounded directly to the body.

Thanks for Confirming that Warthog
I thought that was the case.

 

[Commander5993]

OK... Update Time:

Today I only worked on the M1008 CUCV for a short time.

Here is what I found:

*The Doghead Relay under the dash, DID indeed have power coming into it.
**When the key was turned to the start position, the relay engaged and the solid purple wire (which goes to the starter solenoid) had power.

So, I threw down a large piece of cardboard on the cold ground, and got back under the truck.

With some maneuvering, and trying to feel and make sure I had the correct post and such.
I was able to get the positive lead on my multi-meter (voltage tester) on the Starter Solenoid post where the small purple wire (which is red since it was repaired) connects to the Starter Solenoid.

I then touched the nose cone with the negative lead, and had my Dad hit the key.
*When he turned the key to the start position, it had power.

So... The starter solenoid is getting power. But the solenoid didn't even click, and this time I was just a foot from it and heard nothing at all.


....I was thinking about something earlier today, and I did try to find a photo to confirm, but didn't really see what I needed.
So I'm going to ask a stupid question, if for nothing else just to confirm and remove this as a possibility.

Does the "purple" wire coming from the Doghead Relay, connect to the "Left" starter solenoid post?

As this is how the old starter (as seen in this photo) was connected, so I just wired the new starter the same.





If this is Correct, then the only other possibility I see, like Warthog mentioned in an earlier post, is that this 'new' Wilson starter was DOA out of the box.

So tomorrow, I intend to remove the new starter from the truck, and take it AND the old starter to a local starter rebuild shop I recently found, and have them tested. If the "new" starter is bad, then I'm going to have them rebuild the old one, and I'm taking the "new" wilson back to O'reilies for a refund.

 

[cucvrus]

I think the wire should go on the other small post of the starter. I always put it on the one that is closest to the engine. Please try that connection closest to the engine before you return the starter. I think that will work. I only replaced 100+ starters and I am not dreaming. Even though it has been a year or more since I did one myself.

 

[cucvrus]

I know I use an 11/32" mini nut driver and I am 99.99/10% sure it goes on the inside 8/32" stud closest to engine terminal. It is the first wire I put on as the starter is just laying up in there then I put the positive cable on and clock it with ears properly seated and tighten that big nut. I use a 16mm. Then I put the starter up in place and put new starter bolts in the block and tighten them. Swing the support bracket in place and put the 7/16" nut 1/4" x 20 nylok flange nut in place and tighten it and reach up with a swivel socket and tighten the M8 bolt support to block with either the oem 13mm socket of the after market 12mm socket. That my answer. The inside terminal. please try it.

 

[Commander5993]

I know I use an 11/32" mini nut driver and I am 99.99/10% sure it goes on the inside 8/32" stud closest to engine terminal. It is the first wire I put on as the starter is just laying up in there then I put the positive cable on and clock it with ears properly seated and tighten that big nut. I use a 16mm. Then I put the starter up in place and put new starter bolts in the block and tighten them. Swing the support bracket in place and put the 7/16" nut 1/4" x 20 nylok flange nut in place and tighten it and reach up with a swivel socket and tighten the M8 bolt support to block with either the oem 13mm socket of the after market 12mm socket. That my answer. The inside terminal. please try it.

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

Ok Rick, well... if you've changed 100 CUCV starters, thats about 99 more than I've done.
So there may be a slight possibility you could be right...



I'll try it tomorrow (weather & time permitting) and see what happens.
I may have gotten the wire order turned around when I was taking the old one off, as I had the starter sitting on its nose when I removed the wires.

I hope that's all is wrong, who knows maybe it was a good thing since we didn't find the wire melted to the exhaust manifold until yesterday.

Strangely, on the old starter, the nut on the 'other' small post was loose, even though there wasn't anything hooked up to it. I should have tightened it up first, before I took the solenoid wire off, so I would know which was which.

I looked at the wiring diagram thats here on SS several times, but the way that the solenoid is turned in the diagram, I couldn't figure out which way they had it connected.



Anyone know what the 'other' post is for if its not needed to engage the solenoid??


Once complete, I'll post my results.

Thanks for the info!