No start started again.

[edpdx]

My new battery cables, new starter relay solenoid and new starter forked about 5 times yesterday then I get >CLACK<.

I know you all are tired of this never ending thread; but since I have never figured out what the problem is, I never have been able to say it has been FIXED- only that it is running again. And I fear driving it when I do have a streak that lasts a few weeks.

I believe that I am narrowing things down here. Last time I eliminated the purple wire from the circuit altogether. Instead I ran a new cable from the Starter Relay- where I removed the solid purple line, directly to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid. CLACK! So I am eliminating that wire from the problem. The relays ground wire is getting a solid ground.

This leaves the 12v purple w/white wire. AND The solid RED wire that go to the relay. A in the diagram shows the routing of 3RED 2Y as it enters the cab. Are there any known problem areas with this wire from the firewall to the 24V buss?
"C" shows the same wire where a splice goes to the FUSE BOX at "D". Any known issues with shorting wires or bad connectors here?
Finally the Splice at be where a yellow wire from the ignition switch and the purple w/white meet. The purple wire goes to the glow Plug card via a connector?

I think that if I replace the fusible link on the red wire that goes from the 24v buss to the relay. I can eliminate that first. and that will leave me with just these four to inspect.

I know that the relay is getting 12 volts when the key is turned to START so does that mean that the yellow wire from the ignition switch delivers juice to the Purple w/white, which excites the Starter Relay? If so, then that would only leave the RED 24v supply cable to the starter relay as the probable culprit?

 

[dstang97]

Why start a new thread????


Did you load test the batteries??
Take the Red wire and purple wire off the relay and touch them together....What happens????

 

[edpdx]

dstang97 wrote: Did you load test the batteries??
Take the Red wire and purple wire off the relay and touch them together....What happens????

I have load tested them and they act brand new.

RED/Purple together.- I'll report back Saturday afternoon. Got a auto painting Saturday.

Meanwhile: Since I only have 10.5 volts at the starter relay's Purple w/white wire, I am taking a look here for a leak. I could use some help figuring out where and what the two red boxed items are as I'm not that good at deciphering schematics yet. The yellow is the Purple w/ white wire all the way back to the FUEL FILTER ASSEMBLY.

 

[Terracoma]

The red box near the fuel filter in that schematic is the diode for the water in fuel circuit.

Rear of the engine, near or behind the vacuum pump. Here's a photo of it, courtesy of Warthog.


.

 

[mistaken1]

If you open up that splice where the yellow meets the purple/white wires what voltage do you measure on the yellow wire coming from the ignition switch?

The ignition switch could be bad.




Another option would be to disconnect the purple/white wire at the starter relay (the one under the dash).

Run a long wire from the purple/white wire at the starter relay (say a #12 terminated properly on the relay in place of the purple/white wire) to the front battery where you can manually hold it on the positive terminal (strip an inch of wire, twist it tight and hold it on the terminal with a screwdriver or leather glove).

You will bypass everything ahead of the purple/white wire at the relay, you should measure full battery voltage at that starter relay when doing this. What result do you get?


If you do what dstang97 says you will bypass the starter relay and send 24V directly to starter solenoid. If that works (cranks the motor) you may have a problem with your relay (bad relay or not enough voltage to pull in that relay meaning bad something related to the energizing of that relay). If you are showing 10.5 volts at that relay continually sending it low voltage will cause it to fail.

 

[doghead]

Clinto had the same issue(low voltage to the relay start wire). It was a bad ignition switch.

I would replace it.

 

[edpdx]

Just got back in from further testing. I followed Dstang97 recommendation to:

Take the Red wire and purple wire off the relay and touch them together....What happens????

I disconnected all wires from the starter relay; attached the red and purple wire to the remote pushbutton starter switch and got a noise from the starter solenoid- no cranking. The purple wire reads grounded when the key is off and disconnected from the starter relay. The Red wire reads 24.1 disconnected from the relay.

mistaken1 said:

If you open up that splice where the yellow meets the purple/white wires what voltage do you measure on the yellow wire coming from the ignition switch?

Did not do this yet_______.

Another option would be to disconnect the purple/white wire at the starter relay (the one under the dash).

Run a long wire from the purple/white wire at the starter relay (say a #12 terminated properly on the relay in place of the purple/white wire) to the front battery where you can manually hold it on the positive terminal (strip an inch of wire, twist it tight and hold it on the terminal with a screwdriver or leather glove).

You will bypass everything ahead of the purple/white wire at the relay, you should measure full battery voltage at that starter relay when doing this. What result do you get?

I got 11.8 at the end of the wire when it was not connected to the starter relay. Connected voltage was 10.9

 

[dstang97]

If you did what I told you and you heard a click in the solenoid. You have a bad starter, bad batteries, or bad connections. That should have spun the starter. If there was no click at all i would say bad wire. (purple)

 

[cheiser666]

do you have access to a nato slave cable and vehicle for a jump? I had 2 brand new batteries and would barely crank. Hooked up a deuce and fired right up.

I am with mistaken... take a wire from solenoid up to battery and see if it cranks. if it does you just cut out starter, starter solenoid, and battery issues.

 

[edpdx]

I ran a 10g wire from the starter solenoid to the 12v positive of the front battery. The starter solenoid was clearly engaging. I measured the voltage of the battery cable to the starter motor. It was 25v- I had just charged both batteries.

This seems to be the starter.

SO I will remove it. This is the second Wilson 24v 28MT I've killed. This one only had about 6 starts.

After replacing it and the battery cables and the starter relay, it started up in a split second- new glow plugs too. So I thought that was the answer, too many bad glow plugs had me cranking too long to get it to start. I hear that can be bad on a starter.

So, everything was good. I had successfully started my blazer half-a-dozen times. Then I had the fuel line get a hole in it, and I found myself cranking and cranking to get the fuel to come. I believe that is what burned up this starter.

Q: Can I find and repair the damage in the motor my self? I have never opened a starter before and this one is a warranty replacement that takes 3-7 days to get.

 

[edpdx]

HOLY SMOKES! I found the problem. After hearing the solenoid engaging; but no starter motor, I took the inspection cover off of the flexplate. I see all this brass shavings up against the engine and the starter gear is stuck in the teeth of the flexplate. I have looked here before and never noticed the starter in this condition. The original starter had no shims- and this one sounded good and fired up, so I never checked it until today.

SHIMS! I need shims!

I have never shimmed a starter before- I always just put them back if they were there to begin with. How do I know which side to add a shim to? What to get, where to get them?

It seems this problem may always have been about shims . To all of you that have invested any of your valuable time following this thread, or contributing to a solution, I apologize for not having caught this much, much, much, sooner.

 

[doghead]

You do not shim one side or the other, they simply drop the starter(both sides).

Shimming is explained in the -20TM. I'll look for it and post it in a bit.

edit, here's the page. right click and select "open in new window" and it's almost big enough to read!

 

[mistaken1]

It seems this problem may always have been about shims . To all of you that have invested any of your valuable time following this thread, or contributing to a solution, I apologize for not having caught this much, much, much, sooner.

We appreciate your perseverance and reports and will do all we can to help.

 

[dstang97]

I did from day one say OEM is the only starter that works correctly in the CUCV's .....IMO

 

[edpdx]

dstang97,

I did from day one say OEM is the only starter that works correctly in the CUCV's .....IMO

I'm just glad you didn't say "I told you so".