Non detergent motor oil????

[Brad]

I was having trouble finding non detergent motor oil. Everething that clearly says "NON DETERGENT", also says mineral oil and not for gasoline engines???
I local parts store has "BRAD PENN" Premium SAE 30. It dont say either way but the parts store syas it is Non Detergent. Cept' they aint known for really being toooo smart, so I am trying to find out before I put it in the engine????
It is part No. 009-7113. I went to the web site but could not really find out either way.
And, I really aint toooo smart in using a computer.
Anyone know for sure???
Thanks

 

[NDT]

Put some Pennzoil 10W-30 in there and be done with it. If you are worried about dissolving existing sludge, pull the oil pan and clean it out.

 

[papabear]

Put some Pennzoil 10W-30 in there and be done with it. If you are worried about dissolving existing sludge, pull the oil pan and clean it out.

What NDT said.

Well...actually, I prefer Castrol GTX but the idea is the same.

 

[61sleepercab]

What are you using non det. oil in? I would not try today to run a modern engine with antique oil. To change over you have to be careful not to suddenly flush sludge into the oil pan of a oil pump supplied engine and block off the oil screen or pass grit onto the crank bearings. I have cleaned out other persons conversion to HD oil by having to scrape out gritty sludge from the oil drain hole with a long thin screw driver. I have seen many Chevy V6 engines with bad cranks from oil screen being covered over from sludge. Be careful. Mark

 

[Brad]

Hi guys, and thanks for the input.
I am trying to get an old jeep running. Not a real restoration, so to speak.
It is titled 42 or 43, but I think it is actually a 27 or so.
It is not an actual military model, but basically the same.
Has the little four cylinder flat head.
A couple years ago I had it running and it ran well. But the radiator was about half full of rust and dirt, as was the water jacket.
I removed the radiator and while thst is off I tore it down to the bare engine, but not apart, for cleaning, etc.
I am finally getting it back together and about ready to start but want to change the oil and filter. There is some thick white crap on the bottom of the dipstick, and the oil looks very dirty.
I know better than to put a detergent oil in it and am just trying to find a good NON detergent. But everything I have found that is marked specifically as NON DETERGENT warns against use in gas engines.
But since my inquirey on this site yesterday I have heard back from the makers of "BRAD PENN" oil. They tell me that their oil called Premium is indeed a detergent oil, and not to use it.
They have a product # 7030 that is a non detergent 30 weight oil and will be right for the job.
Thanks againm I appreciate it.
Brad

 

[Gunzy]

Before changing the oil put in some crankcase cleaner(some times labeled as engine flush) Or some diesel fuel(some have used ATF) and run at temp for 10 to 15 minutes then drain and go ahead and use a modern detergent oil. I have done this a few times with out any problems.

 

[o1951]

I am finally getting it back together and about ready to start but want to change the oil and filter. There is some thick white crap on the bottom of the dipstick, and the oil looks very dirty.
Brad

The white crud is water that mixed with oil. Figure the oil pump screen is at least partially clogged and sludged up. If you don't want to risk doing an engine rebuild, think about pulling pan, scraping crud out and cleaning pump screen.

 

[Captaincarrier]

Bite the bullet, pull the pan.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Detergent vs non-detergent

Good luck on your hunt Brad but you can put your gun down.

What your good brothers here are telling you is that tens of thousands of guys have now started using modern oils in old engines and they haven't had a problem.

Here is a debate that is a good read.....http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7625

So if you still want to use non-detergent you can and your hunt is solved but if they had good ol' Pennzoil 10w/30 back in 27 they would have used it.

 

[Cleveland Iron]

I recall reading that when detergent motor oil was introduced it gained a bad reputation due to the old engines it was being run in failed. The reason for these failures was not due to the oil being bad, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. The problem was the sludge that had been built up over time in the old engines was doing interesting things: such as helping maintain compression with sludge buildup between piston rings. Of course the detergent oil helped to remove that sludge. Of course the old engines that were being held together by the sludge, so to speak, failed. ...Just saying that's what I remember reading.

 

[poppop]

If it were mine I would clean it up and run modern oil in it.

 

[SturmTyger380]

I use Shell Rotella. It is for diesel engines and still contains the additives the older oils had. I tired the 15w-30 and later went with the single 30w. It seems the oil pressure stays up better with the single weight.

http://www.shell.com/rotella/products.html

 

[Brad]

I understand completely, I think?
I would use regular modern detergent oil if it were a recently rebuilt, or even clean looking inside engine. But it has been many years, I dont know how many, since this engine was apart. And it certainly does not look very clean inside.
So all my teachings in the past, and experience tells me to avoid possible problems by staying away from detergent oild.
Now that being said, I just drained the old oil and to my surprise there was a substantial amount of water came out first. Maybe as much as a cup or more.
This concerns me, but I just dont have the ambition to drop the pan, even though I agree that would be best. But I am going to put in some Kerosene and just try and slosh it thru with the starter. I would start the engine but it is not wired up to run yet, Then draib it out. Sort of an effort to dilute the moisture. I am wondering if a bottle of dry gas might help dissapate the moisture???
I just dont have the ability to pull the pan just now. I have a really painful shoulder and my bad back is killing me and just getting up and down under it is more than I care to tolerate, so I'm going to take a chance and do it the lazy way. If I wait til I can pull the pan it might never happen.
Thanks all as usual for all the help and advice.
Also, I know this is a jeep I'm working on and I'm in the Early Duece forum, but this is a subject that could pertain to any old engine.
Brad

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Kerosene isn't going to help get moisture out. You've probably got a rebuild ahead of you. I wouldn't spend much effort on getting the starter wired up until you make sure you have something more than just a block of rust there.

 

[Brad]

Thats why I dont want to put much effort into it. If it is full of rust it wont matter what I do.
My thought on the kerosene is just that if I mix it all around inside it might lift some moisture and then it would naturally go to the bottom and drain out when I pull the plug. Might cut a little rust and loosen anything in the screen. Thats all.
If it is full of bad rust, it wont much matter what I do.
I saw that Rotella oil. Thought about it.
Thanks as usual to all.
Brad

 

[Brad]

OK guys, here I go again? Thanks for your patience.
With the filter removed from the canister I poured about a cup of kerosene in it to clean it out also, thinking it would simply drain thru the hose and down into the timing chain cover.
BUT NO!!! Of course not. So I removed the hose completley and the kerosene just stayed right there in the canister?
Seems the hoole tube that the cover bolt threads into connects to the hose, as I could blow right thru it all and bot effect the kerosene in it???
So how does the oil drain drain out thru that tube??
My friend stopped in and he suggested that when the engine is running it is under pressure and somehow forced in and out.
If so, then why is the canister basically empty in these type of filters anytime when changing the oil????
I just want to make sure I'm ok here before filling with oil and maybe making a big mesS?????
Thanks again,
Signed stupid pain in the A--

 

[o1951]

Like I said, Water in oil. Well, I guess you could try a procedure I use when an engine has not run in years, and I want to get oil into bearings, on cam lobes... Pull oil pressure sender and hook up a pump to the port. Pump in fresh clean oil. Keep pumping until it comes clean out of pan drain. That may push some sludge off the oil pump screen, and will at least get bearings, cams to start turning with oil, not water. After I think fresh oil is in bearings, I crank engine over on starter, with plugs out, 1 ounce of oil in each cylinder to lube cyl walls. Usually more dark oil comes out drain. Then I fill it up and fire it up.