Noob question: How bad ARE the brakes, really?

[rubicon_in_ga]

So first off, I haven't gotten my first Deuce yet. I'm considering my options and whatnot, but I'm trying to get my knowledge and wisdom built up way before I take the plunge. Admittedly, I'm a noob when it comes to alot of this.

Now, unlike alot of guys who wanna make an almost 60 year old truck do the quarter mile like a tricked out 1000hp F250. . . I am FINE with slow. My concern is actually the brakes. Just how bad are they, really?

I've had two questionable experiences with braking issues before, and neither were anything I care to remember, but for reference sake, here goes:

1976 CJ7, 258 inline six, 33" Super Swampers, and yes, four wheel DRUM brakes. Had a school bus of all things pull out in front of me while I was doing about 45mph coming down a long hill, and locked up all four brakes. Let me tell you. . . the sound of 12.5" wide rubber from four tires simultaneously locking up and scraping asphalt as I prayed I didn't hit a bus. . . is enough to make you religious in a hurry.

2004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 4.0 inline six, 35" BFG Mud Terrains, and four wheel DISC brakes. The issue here wasn't locking them up. It was flat out inability to stop. I had replaced the front pads with some 'high quality' name brand auto parts big box store pads, only to realize later, those tend to be ceramic and are designed for reduced brake dust. I.e, less stopping power. There's nothing quite like trying to slow down on the interstate due to traffic ahead, only to find. . . you're not slowing down. I've since changed the pads to EBC YellowStuff pads (at a whooping $150ish a set) which (if memory serves) are high friction pads designed for large pickups and towing applications. Sure the brake dust sucks, but the thing stops on a dime now.

So, before I go all crazy and excited about buying my first Duece, I wanna make sure the darn thing will actually STOP when I want it to. I intend to follow all the normal safety precautions, don't follow too close, give myself PLENTY of stopping distance, stay off the interstates if at all possible, and first and foremost INSPECT INSPECT INSPECT and make sure EVERYTHING is working correctly before driving her.

But lets say I do all that. How bad is it stopping a 13,000lb truck like this with drum brakes? Am I going to be standing on the brake pedal with both feet just to get her to slow down, or is braking comparable to a normal vehicle, all other things considered (believe me, I know this isn't a Honda Civic)? I'd rather not have to keep a spare change of underwear in my toolbox every time I take her out for a drive.

Thanks a bunch!

Rubicon

 

[Coffey1]

They suck go with 939 5 ton with reliable air brakes.

 

[rubicon_in_ga]

Wouldn't air brakes require a CDL? I'm way too lazy for that. LOL

 

[NDT]

Brakes on the deuce are just fine, you can lock up all 10 easy and she'll screech to a stop like your old Jeep. Just always remember they are single circuit and if they fail (due to you not performing maintenance), you will have to do a radical downshift and pull the parking brake which will help a small amount.

 

[98G]

They suck go with 939 5 ton with reliable air brakes.

Yes and no.

When they work, which is 99.9999% of the time, they work fine and stop you just fine.

But they're a single point of failure. When they don't work, they don't work at all. Downshifting and locking up a park brake isn't all that effective at a panic stop.

Air brakes are a HUGE plus. Multiply redundant, and if they fail you stop whether you want to or not.

I have no idea what GA's laws are regarding CDL and airbrakes. Varies by state for noncommercial use.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Ditto what NDT said. My 5-ton weighs in at just under 20K lbs and she stops just fine.
Remember, drum brakes are standard equipment on tractor trailer [+ the full air brakes] carrying upwards to 100,000 pounds, but you also have the trailer brakes assisting with that as well.
But if all in good working order, they'll do just fine.


I don't have a Duece, but I think it's the same with either, if it comes with DOT 5, use the DOT 5, don't mix it. If they sit for some time not used, the master cylinders can sometimes go bad where it feel like no brakes until you pump them up a bit, not what you want to feel when faced with a panic stop. But that is the same with a lot of trucks, not just the Duece.
Make sure all your components are in good working order and in proper adjustment.
All else fails, make sure you have a good working Parking brake, insurance and an extra set of undies.

The only thing to really remember about bigger trucks stopping is the distance, otherwise they are the same as a small car, just bigger, weigh more and cost 5 times as much.

Here's a quick look, just admire the simplicity of these brakes:

 

[DavidWymore]

The brakes are made to stop the truck with 10,000 pounds in the bed. They'll stop the truck quicker than you want to unloaded.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yeah, they are fine if you pay attention to them. Too many times, nobody even goes through their axles let alone the brakes. Get a truck you like, put new brakes on it(lines and rubber hoses) then rebuild the master cyl, air pack, and wheel cyls. If a part is too bad, you'll have to buy new or used(rebuild used please) then you will know what you have.

Its like anything with wheels thats old, it needs to be at least inspected once in a while.

 

[rustystud]

If your really concerned about the brakes, get a later model M35A2 with the "Air-Force" brake up-grade. Mine works just fine. I can get that little beast to stop NOW if I want to. As far as the 5 tons go, there great but big. Unless you have acreage I would just stay with the deuce.

 

[clinto]

Gimpy is right. I think all these people who whine that M44 brakes suck got that opinion from some Government Liquidation truck that had 20 year old parts.

I had a deuce with new hoses, wheel cylinders, master cylinder and airpack and it was an absolute joy to drive. It would lock all 10 tires and required very little pedal pressure.

I've had other deuces that stopped fine but required a lot of pedal pressure.

So buy a truck and simply plan on going through the brake system. If you buy a refurb'd truck from someone like me (I don't have any more trucks, sorry), all I would do is flush the system and replace what was bad, either leaking or rotted (hoses, etc.).

Brake lines can be bought in bulk at Napa and you can bend them. You can buy NOS hoses on eBay for $120ish shipped for all 5 or you can have a local hose shop make new DOT approved hoses. You can have them made out of stainless as well. Do the wheel cylinders (they're $30 each at Napa) and get a master cylinder (cheap). Go ahead and rebuild or replace your airpack.

I strongly suspect the varying factor in why some of these things stop so well and some so-so is the airpack. It may be worn enough that it is creating boost, but not as much as a new one. They aren't cheap but if you keep the air dry and the fluid flushed, it'll last a loooooooong time.

The 5 ton argument is hilarious. Yeah, air brakes are great and a lot of M939s have the ABS MWO but that's only part of the equation. I can lift a deuce brake drum and hub assy. into the parts washer for maintenance. Let's see that with a 5 ton. Deuce takeout engines and transmissions are cheap. Not so on the M939. Price a proper Allison rebuild. The weight is an issue for your yard, driveway, tags, insurance, etc.

I love, love, love the M939 series trucks, especially the A2s. But it's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I've got both a 5ton and a deuce, I like the deuce better as its more fun(imho) and its just a tad bigger than a pickup. I always forget to mention the size of parts when folks cheer for the 5tons.

 

[Coffey1]

Deuce fans 5 ton fans. Go with a 2 1/2 ton Lmtv 1078. Or come to rally and try one of each and see what you would really like to drive. Look me up there and you can try out my Fmtv it's the 5 ton and I am sure my buddy would let you try out his 1078

 

[Recovry4x4]

Properly serviced brakes will do just fine. As Clinto said, price parts and weight go up exponentially on 5 tons and FMTV stuff. Here is one of the best aspects of a regular old M35A2. When your neighbors and friends find out it has 3 pedals and no power steering, they are 10 times less likely to want to borrow it. Get a 5 ton or FMTV and every swinging **** in the neighborhood will want to drive it. My 10 year old can drive one of them.

 

[Eliteweapons]

Also be careful driving in the rain. Just a little too much on the brakes and it will try to come around on you quick. Drifted mine by accident when a light changed to yellow on me into an off camber corner.

 

[CGarbee]

So, I think everyone has covered things pretty well, but since Eliteweapons is the only one so far (that I noticed) who mentioned rain... The only time that I have had an issue with stopping one of my deuces or five tons has been when braking hard in the rain with NDTs...then the lack of traction has become an issue both for increasing stopping distance and for the reduction in control...
For my trucks that have radial tires braking in the rain, with either air over hydraulic or full air brakes, has not been an issue.

No matter what size truck or type of brakes, maintenance is the key...

 

[Josh]

Some people will probably give me crap about it, but I put over 20,000 miles on my deuce(combo of both 900NDCCs and 395MVTs) towing a 6k trailer that did not have brakes. Not once did the truck give me the impression it wouldn't stop when I wanted it too. I've had the truck loaded the the hilt with firewood towing a M105 with a total scale weight of 42,000+ Lbs, Never had an issue stopping. I did check my brakes often, and after 60,000 miles they have finally got spongy. Truck is parked until it gets a full brake job.

On a side note, NDCCs/NDTS suck for stopping on anything other than dry pavement. A good set radials will be the best thing to enhance braking.

 

[treva2]

There is a thread on here changing the system over to a Hydro Max system. Its a "hydraulic power assist" and it splits front and rear into separate circuits. Its a brake system designed for a 30,000 lb. truck.

 

[M543A2]

The general consensus here, and from my experience, well maintained stock systems on both deuce and five tons work fine.

 

[98G]

The general consensus here, and from my experience, well maintained stock systems on both deuce and five tons work fine.

Agreed.

But if not maintained, the failure is sudden and catastrophic - (first post, last paragraph)

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?170857-Picked-up-a-deuce-last-month

Edit to add - http://www.wgal.com/article/military-vehicle-crashes-into-subway-restaurant-in-york-county-1/6236643

 

[sue]

I have an m35A3, dual circuit brakes and there fine