NP205 for the Deuce

[rustystud]

I'm working on a NP205 right now that should be able to handle 1,000 HP and over 1000 FT of torque. Plenty strong for the Deuce with 1/4 the weight and 1/3 the size. Far simpler to work with too.
This NP205 has front and rear 1500 series U-Joints . The output and input shafts are much larger then stock. Northwest Fab in Canada makes them . A bit pricey but they will handle 1000 HP easily. They are called the "Titan" series. I tried to upload an image but it doesn't want to work.

 

[rustystud]

OK, I think I figured out how to get the images uploaded. You can see how much larger these shafts are compared to the largest "stock" shafts . Their kits come with new aluminum bearing housings, but I had steel ones made up for mine. Also the cast iron housing needs to be modified to fit the larger bearings the new shafts need. I had several housings modified even though I'm only building two transfer-cases. With these new shafts and steel bearing housings and larger bearings and 1500 series flanges for the U-Joints , these transfer-case's will handle 1000 HP and over 1000 Ft Ibs of torque according to the owner of Northwest Fab. I talked with him quite a bit about what I was doing. and according to him he sells these items to the monster truck people and they have never complained that the parts could not take the torque and horse power they put out. The only items they have fail are the bearing retainers. They can flex under extreme load and shatter. Since I had steel ones made up for all the aluminum retainers including the large one that holds the roller bearing, I'm extremely confident this will work fine in my Deuce. I also have the special 29 splined input shaft needed to be able to use the Allison 1000 series transmission. I have three Allison transmissions I'm going to use to rebuild two good ones with. I also have the two 4X4 adapter housings needed. The only thing I need now is the Speedo ring which needs to be mounted on the rear output shaft. Since the "Titan" shafts are so much larger and have a taper I need a shop to cut a tapered hole along with a set screw to mount them. I have already had the NP205 speedo housing modified to except the sensor. This is needed for the Allison to function properly. Since my good friend who was my machinist retired and moved to Idaho I don't have anyone to do this work for me. Once my shop is finished and I can get back to work on my Deuce project again I will start looking for a new machinist. You would think it would be easy, but most shops around here only do CNC work on mass scale. No "one off" stuff .

 

[rustystud]

I forgot to up-load pictures of my steel bearing retainers. Here they are.
The last picture is of my remote mounted shaft cables. This way I can mount it almost anywhere in the cab. I'm going with dual cables to allow the NP205 to be shifted to 4X4 high, 4X4 low, front only and rear only. This way if my drivelines or axles get damaged I can isolate them and still drive with just the rear axles or just the front axle.

 

[gringeltaube]

Conversation moved over from the thread "Axletech T600", after clean-up...

TomTill84 said:
NP205 is all aluminum right? Although strong it's more pron to cracking under extreme frame flex. I can find anything out there on the stock T-Case for the duece. Only a few post's in pirate 4x4 saying they hold up ok under high HP. But no max HP or TQ ratings.

simp5782 said:
Upgraded 205s are aluminum. Some dodge ones in the 80s were aluminum. They are generally all cast iron

TomTill84 said:
Yeah, just googled it when I jumped off here and seen it was cast. Simp seeing your videos off youtube you deal with this stuff all the time. So would you say a stock NP205 cast is stronger and better than the M35A2 ones?

simp5782 said:
205s are lighter, smaller and easier to put in something. The 136 is around 300lbs or so, better suited for a 34in frame, something with air since you will want the air shift version.

205s are expensive, but they can handle some power being gear driven. I prefer 203s only because I had good luck with them in the older full size jeeps.

TomTill84 said:
Are all the u joints on the trucks drive line the same? You said 1710's is that what they use after the T Case on the yokes and shafts. So the weak point is the u joints from the transmission to the T Case? Seen that the NP205 uses a 1410 so this is why I'm asking.

Sorry for all the questions, but knowledge is key!

simp5782 said:
1710 is the joints used on the T138 which is the 5 ton case. 1 step above the T136. The T136 used 1500s on the Input and output.

 

[cattlerepairman]

All I can say is "wow".

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[TomTill84]

Yes!! Love to see this happen

 

[DaneGer21]

What are your plans for this Deuce to need such a built driveline? Or is it just security? I’m just curious.

 

[rustystud]

What are your plans for this Deuce to need such a built driveline? Or is it just security? I’m just curious.

Well originally I was planning on installing the overdrive kit in my Spicer 3053 transmission. I have enough parts to rebuild four or five transmissions actually, but after my knee replacement I had a change of heart. Since I've been driving my 1 ton 2019 Silveradeo for almost everything I've become used to having this nice Allison 1000 series transmission do all my shifting for me. My knee feels so much better after a long drive !
So I thought why not install one in my Deuce. After all I have been planning to go to Alaska before I die and it would make driving so much more pleasent !
So I researched it, and even bought adapters to install an automatic behind the Multi-Fuel. Problems arose when it came to length of transmission and transfer-case. I did know this would be a problem but I thought I could "stretch" the drivetrain. No can do. Unless I actually install longer frame rails which can be done, after all that is what a M36 is after all. But what a pain that would be !!! Talk about a ton of work !!!
So the next thing to look at was a smaller transfer-case. There are heavy duty ones out there that would fit but they are extremely expensive !!! So I researched the NP205. I've rebuilt a ton of them and even in stock condition they can handle a lot of power. So after finding "Northwest Fab" in Canada and talking with the owner about what I wanted to do I came away with this plan. Yes it has cost a bit of money, but it should work great behind a Deuce. The Flanges they make work great too. Mount right up to the factory Deuce flanges. I will have to have the rear driveline modified a little bit but that is expected in anything like this.

 

[INFChief]

Well originally I was planning on installing the overdrive kit in my Spicer 3053 transmission. I have enough parts to rebuild four or five transmissions actually, but after my knee replacement I had a change of heart. Since I've been driving my 1 ton 2019 Silveradeo for almost everything I've become used to having this nice Allison 1000 series transmission do all my shifting for me. My knee feels so much better after a long drive !
So I thought why not install one in my Deuce. After all I have been planning to go to Alaska before I die and it would make driving so much more pleasent !
So I researched it, and even bought adapters to install an automatic behind the Multi-Fuel. Problems arose when it came to length of transmission and transfer-case. I did know this would be a problem but I thought I could "stretch" the drivetrain. No can do. Unless I actually install longer frame rails which can be done, after all that is what a M36 is after all. But what a pain that would be !!! Talk about a ton of work !!!
So the next thing to look at was a smaller transfer-case. There are heavy duty ones out there that would fit but they are extremely expensive !!! So I researched the NP205. I've rebuilt a ton of them and even in stock condition they can handle a lot of power. So after finding "Northwest Fab" in Canada and talking with the owner about what I wanted to do I came away with this plan. Yes it has cost a bit of money, but it should work great behind a Deuce. The Flanges they make work great too. Mount right up to the factory Deuce flanges. I will have to have the rear driveline modified a little bit but that is expected in anything like this.

You might be on to something! Keep good notes and create an “engineering packet”. Hey; this could be real money-making opportunity for you!!! I also hope you live well beyond your planned trip!

 

[cattlerepairman]

@Rusty Stud Based on my own painful experience, I need to revert to what an engineer/heavy equipment tech always tells me when I marvel at fabrication and improvements and loudly think about what would be cool to do.

He says "Do not build/engineer something that already exists and is readily available".

What it really boils down to is to be totally clear and brutally honest about WHY I want to build something or add a capability. It rarely is about that thing or that capability, but about the journey, the process to get there and to have my existing truck, my existing car, my...whatever...have that capability, even though it would be much cheaper, easier, less involved to simply go out and get the thing that already does what I try to get my thing to do.
Examples are numerous.....add dump bed and lockers to deuce....or get a used small dump truck. ("Noooo...but I want MY DEUCE to be able to....!!!")
You see where this is going.

The time and effort engineering the transfer case solution when weighed against simply getting a 6x6 truck with an Allison is skewed towards a 900 series or a M1078 etc. that is a ready to go designed and engineered package.

There have to be OTHER important factors to engineer something that is - in some form - already available. For example, to create said engineering package as a side business, or because it gets me active, happy and boosts my life expectancy by three decades are all very good reasons to do it!

And, yes, I think it is mighty cool to develop components for the 21st century M35A5 !

 

[TomTill84]

The same here. Builit proof. My plans were to do a 12 Valve swap, FSO-6064 or FSO-8064 and the T-Case....??? Well that's why I was asking about the axletech T600. All this to pull or tow a modified expandable van body off a 5 ton turned into a camper slash bug out hide away. My plans.

 

[rustystud]

@Rusty Stud Based on my own painful experience, I need to revert to what an engineer/heavy equipment tech always tells me when I marvel at fabrication and improvements and loudly think about what would be cool to do.

He says "Do not build/engineer something that already exists and is readily available".

What it really boils down to is to be totally clear and brutally honest about WHY I want to build something or add a capability. It rarely is about that thing or that capability, but about the journey, the process to get there and to have my existing truck, my existing car, my...whatever...have that capability, even though it would be much cheaper, easier, less involved to simply go out and get the thing that already does what I try to get my thing to do.
Examples are numerous.....add dump bed and lockers to deuce....or get a used small dump truck. ("Noooo...but I want MY DEUCE to be able to....!!!")
You see where this is going.

The time and effort engineering the transfer case solution when weighed against simply getting a 6x6 truck with an Allison is skewed towards a 900 series or a M1078 etc. that is a ready to go designed and engineered package.

There have to be OTHER important factors to engineer something that is - in some form - already available. For example, to create said engineering package as a side business, or because it gets me active, happy and boosts my life expectancy by three decades are all very good reasons to do it!

And, yes, I think it is mighty cool to develop components for the 21st century M35A5 !

Normally I would totally agree with you, but the M1078 is a 5 ton truck. Much bigger and heavier and needs more fuel per mile. The whole reason to keep the Deuce is the nice package it represents. Big enough to haul what I need, yet small enough to avoid all those problems of a larger truck ie: turning radius, fuel mileage, finding a parking space !!!! Bigger is not always better.
As a side note, I was a heavy equipment mechanic for over 40 years. I modified "stock" trucks and busses all the time as OEM is not always better. If it was, there would not be such a huge parts aftermarket . Remember, their selling a product that will do it's job but nothing more, as that would cost them more money and piss off the share holders. More then once the transit agency I was at had to upgrade systems that would fail on a regular basis. Stock OEM would not cut it, but our buses needed to run. The public demanded it. So we modified it and made it work.
Once I modified a fuel system part (without the boss's approval) and we ended up with the engineers from Gillig Bus coming to our base to see what I had done. OK I almost got fired since I did it without approval first, but it worked ! So I was able to keep my job with just a oral reprimand . Later the base Supervisor talked with me and said "good job great idea ! Just don't do it again ! " .

 

[Tracer]

Rusty, nice to see your back at the blackboard. A few years back I salted away your posts on Multi Fuel injection pump & turbocharger rebuilding. Good as Gold.

 

[TomTill84]

The NP205 you are building, which one is it? Are all NP205's the same? I ask only because after Googling it they can in e e Everything. Ford Chevy dodge etc.

 

[TomTill84]

 

[rustystud]

The NP205 you are building, which one is it? Are all NP205's the same? I ask only because after Googling it they can in e e Everything. Ford Chevy dodge etc.

I used the GM one since it has the front driveline on the passenger side. I'm also building one for my 2019 silveradeo, but it will be the Ford case since the front driveline is on the driver's side. The cases I used all had the large bearings, but that really wouldn't matter since they all have to be modified to fit much larger bearings anyway.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Normally I would totally agree with you, but the M1078 is a 5 ton truck. Much bigger and heavier and needs more fuel per mile. The whole reason to keep the Deuce is the nice package it represents. Big enough to haul what I need, yet small enough to avoid all those problems of a larger truck ie: turning radius, fuel mileage, finding a parking space !!!! Bigger is not always better.
As a side note, I was a heavy equipment mechanic for over 40 years. I modified "stock" trucks and busses all the time as OEM is not always better. If it was, there would not be such a huge parts aftermarket . Remember, their selling a product that will do it's job but nothing more, as that would cost them more money and piss off the share holders. More then once the transit agency I was at had to upgrade systems that would fail on a regular basis. Stock OEM would not cut it, but our buses needed to run. The public demanded it. So we modified it and made it work.
Once I modified a fuel system part (without the boss's approval) and we ended up with the engineers from Gillig Bus coming to our base to see what I had done. OK I almost got fired since I did it without approval first, but it worked ! So I was able to keep my job with just a oral reprimand . Later the base Supervisor talked with me and said "good job great idea ! Just don't do it again ! " .

Easier to get forgiveness than permission!

 

[rustystud]

Easier to get forgiveness than permission!

You got that right !!!
I still came close to getting the ax on that one. Some people in upper management didn't like "common" mechanics modifying anything on their own without "proper" supervision ! As if those paper pushers even knew what it was that I did ! Thankfully the Base Supervisor had started out his career as a floor mechanic. So he could see right off that what I had done had helped immensely .
Thankfully I don't have to deal with idiots like that anymore. Retirement does have it's perks !

 

[Gunfreak25]

Good to see you again Greg, curious what may be available to deuce owners say 10 years down the line. Got a late start in this game but better late than never.